Shaye Koester (00:00):
Hey, Hey, it's Shaye Koester and I'm your host for Casual Cattle Conversations, where we talk about all things related to ranching, through sharing the stories and practices of different ranchers in their operations. Alrighty, everyone, thanks for tuning in again. Today we get to hear from David Schuler with Schuler red Angus. Now, if you've been following this podcast for a while, you know that we heard from David almost a year ago, but today we're going to talk about time management and labor and resource management on a diversified operation. David and his family are located in Western Nebraska and sure have a lot going on between their cattle and farming operation. Now with that, David really offers his advice and tips and tricks and does an outstanding job sharing his story and how his family really makes things work. With that, please be sure that if you like this episode or other episodes to let me know on social media, whether that's a private message or commenting on the original post, that helps me because it allows me to reach more people when you engage.
Shaye Koester (01:12):
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Platform Cattle (01:52):
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David Schuler (03:02):
Hey!
Shaye Koester (03:03):
Hey, how are ya?
David Schuler (03:05):
Not too bad.
Shaye Koester (03:06):
That's good to hear. All right. So I know you've described your operation for an episode last spring, but would you go ahead and kind of describe your operation that you're on today?
David Schuler (03:18):
I'm the third generation Red Angus seedstock producer for my family, my dad and mom are full-time on the ranch as well as myself. And then we have one hired hand part-time that helps us with mechanics and, and feeding cattle and more during the winter stuff, all that jazz that comes with ranching and farming. And then my sister works for Neogen in Lincoln for the DNA company. And she helps with, uh, being liaison to the dairy industry and helping them with their samples and, and really enjoys her work there. It's in our blood to be in genetics, I guess, in our family. We have a thousand cows have a cow calf operation with about 600 of them being Red Angus and then the 250 of them being Simmental-Red Angus crosses, and then another 250 commercial cow calf operations.
David Schuler (04:11):
But everyone gets treated as a seedstock animal when it comes down to obtaining data research and then trying to move our herd forward to help our customers with either bulls or replacement heifers, uh, throughout the year. So we'd have a spring sale in March, and then we sell private treaty bred, heifers, um, commercial to, um, regionally to our neck of the woods and around the fall time. So we also don't like to take summers off and we like to farm as well. So we try to keep busy with that with planting crops, such as corn alfalfa, triticale, for coverage, for the cattle in the spring, and a few other things, whatever we can grow out here in the sand and Western Nebraska, that is lucky those in the Southeastern part of the state, but we get her done. And that's my day to day operational.
Shaye Koester (05:01):
There's a lot going on there between everything you have going on the ranching side and the farming side. So you mentioned that you have a hired hand in the winter, but like on a typical day, how many people do you have out working?
David Schuler (05:13):
Right. So we would interact. I always say there's, uh, during the winter months, like right now we have four that will I'll, I'll see four people a day, uh, to be my parents, mom and dad, uh, the third being Tom, our hired hand in the shop. And then there's a wild card, whether that's someone who comes in to help us when you work cattle that day or help us video tape cattle, maybe Greg comes in to help us with marketing or bulls in the spring, uh, friends that like to come out and visit and I always plan to work when they come to visit. They think that it's a vacation. I use that as an opportunity to get some things done or maybe a contractor or pouring concrete or something else, some other project on the ranch that someone will come in. So every, every day I expect myself to see four individuals and work them in some kind of aspect on the ranch.
Shaye Koester (05:59):
Okay. So with that, you mentioned that, so it's you and your parents who are there full-time all the time. So how do you kind of delegate who's doing what and some of that may be seasonal, but
David Schuler (06:10):
Yeah, I, I, we're not... The dream one day is to how to handle that is to have a daily meeting in the mornings. Everyone wants to have a daily meeting in the morning where you can just put up a whiteboard, what we're going to do today. This is how it's going to get done. And this is everyone's job. Uh, we're no set way that organized during that, or that type A when it comes to that. So it's very seasonal. So right now there'll be like transitional periods where cows will come in or calves will come in to develop. And maybe it's calving season, maybe it's breeding season. But for example, for now there's two or three days of transition. Whether we figure out the details of what cattle to feed, um, how many, how many people in the labor force it's going to take to feed all those cattle, whether those spring storms, or if there's a lot more cows on the ground that need food than others.
David Schuler (06:59):
But for right now, uh, I'll go to work. And my dad and I will take charge of feeding the animals in the morning and other chores. And then my mother obviously works with, uh, the other nitty-gritty details of in the office or, uh, helping break waters if it needs to be done or helping us, uh, transport feed equipment from here to there, those sorts of things. And that'll be like a two to three week deal until a new part of the ranch operation happens, whether that's bringing in more cattle or, or having bolts to develop. But for right now, uh, we just kinda know that everyone on the ranch has worked here for at least 10 years. And I've worked here for 25 years because I'm 25 years old. So we know each other enough that dad and I can look each other in the eye and know which tractor he's going to take and who's going to drive the payloader or kind of thing. So that, that is something that is going to be a big challenge if we ever have another full-time employee come, which we hope to. This is a fair ad for that, that we'd have to transition ourselves to realize that we will have to take a step slower just to get the transition down of teaching them who's going to be delegated what task. And that's something that we will do. It's just going to take for us an opportunity to be like, Oh, okay. Yeah, you don't know. I'm literally thinking all the time like the family members do that was a very long winded answer, but little gets to every point there.
Shaye Koester (08:29):
Well, no, that's good to hear. Um, so kind of jumping back, you talked about how, even with your commercial herd, you still treat them like the seedstock side. So how much emphasis do you put on data collection, whether that's the ranching side or the farming side,
David Schuler (08:44):
Right. So data is everything for our business, accuracy, as accurate as we can be, not just quantity of data, but quality of that data. So when it comes down to calving season, for instance, we weigh every single calf, including that commercial herd on a scale built on our four wheelers, that we can collect digitally, what that, what that weight is. And to making sure that we can do that on a basis. And maybe we don't have an higher hand who can't lift a calf, and if they have problems with the cow or something like that, I will make myself available at all times to go get that calf weighed, because that is such an important part of birth weight EPD, calving-ease, and those sorts of things, nonetheless, uh, weighing the commercial side of it because we want to have that data to help, um, nail down the accuracy of our yearling bulls and prove our own genetics earlier on and really practice what we preach when it comes down to what we are supplying to, which is that commercial producer and helping to be a service to them as much as possible.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
So it helps diversify us for one, but also gives us a better data collection. To extend on that point of when you talked about data collection, in this last year, we've really grabbed hold of maybe a Google doc form that we all share on the ranch. We also have a hired hand phone available at all times that when we have someone come work for us full-time. We'll give them that phone so that they have service and they don't have to use their own data, but they'll go out and we'll calve 40-50 head a day during the synchronization in the spring, we'll weigh that calf. Then he can look on his phone with a Google doc, and record how much that calf weighed, it's sex, any comments about the cow like a bad udder or feet and those sorts of things. Um, it's section there, as well as what pasture it's in. And then that data goes, submitted into like a Google form, pretty usual, and these onto the next calf, which then that takes away all the paperwork they asked to write down. It doesn't have to take time to write that stuff down and get the papers mixed up, wash and blow away in the wind watch you have to, and then for that to happen, then you gotta go transfer all that data on another piece of paper. Then give that to my mother who takes care of the registration and putting that data into the computer. Now that's all digital. It goes into that Google doc, which then goes to a Google sheet. Of course, that goes straight to my mom's computer. And she can look everything up with like a find in search as well as when I'm out there on the field. I can do the same where I can search and find things from that sheet as well. And that is really changed her operation a lot. I mean, that's, I really like it because I'm from that generation of computers and all that stuff, but that ease of collecting the data will make it so people will want to use it, I guess, just not making it another step, but find ways to make it easier for the hired hand or myself to collect the data and make it easier is huge when it comes down to saving time and making it an attractive object to do on a ranch.
Shaye Koester (11:38):
So have you used other platforms other than Google or did you just start with Google and that's kind of what works so you stay there?
David Schuler (11:45):
There's a lot of people out there trying to develop an app, literally just for this stuff of recording data for cattle and all in the beta stages of that. But at the end of the day, I know how to use Google and that's how it works. And it goes to the Google sheet and it works for us. And I hope one day that there's going to be an awesome app that has this all down. We use CowSense a lot, which we transfer all this data from the Excel document to CowSense and that's great. But when it comes down to the ease for the hired hand, they all know how to use Google. I can share with them with an email. So they have that form as well. And now we actually use that now that Google form for other things like summer pasture, or they can go around the ranch, they put in what pasture they're in, they press submit and it takes them to that data set of like, what bulls do you see? So it meets all four of the four bulls, you know, you're good, but if you missed one, you know, check all that apply. So you miss one, you know, next time you go over there a better damn well see that bull in that pasture. Or if there's some calves that you treated, you can write those down. So the next person that goes to a pasture can look at that Google sheet. They know exactly what they have to look at before they move on. But, uh, I'm, I'm starting to get really antiquated with that. Um, but yeah, one day there'll be an app for all that. Just waiting for that.
Shaye Koester (13:00):
Well, that's awesome to have that checklist for all the pastures that you're checking and just because it's hard to let things slip sometimes.
David Schuler (13:06):
Yeah. Communication. I mean like I said, when it's just me and dad out there, we can, we can definitely read each other's minds sometimes and keep all that straight. But my goal one day is that we don't have to check that pasture each time, you know, so we can work on other things on the ranch and having available to people to be able to communicate and not have things slipped. Like he said, where the next day, two days later, when another employee goes to that same pasture, he already knows exactly which bull he should be looking for. That wasn't there last time, you know, it's 6 sections of ground and they're in the Sandhills. You're maybe not going to see all the bulls that time, but, you know, within the week you should probably see them all because then, you know, you gotta make good neighbors somehow.
Shaye Koester (13:51):
Yeah. So you have brought up communication several times. So what other communication strategies have you found to work best?
David Schuler (13:59):
Uh, phones have come a long ways. I can't imagine what we did on the ranch in the time before the Viaro tour was built a mile from the headquarters, that was the greatest sixth-grade present I ever got for Christmas is getting a Viaro tower with full bars on a cell phone, because before that it was walking talkies and things like that, that you maybe didn't carry with you all the time. And I know it sounds very simple, but when it comes down to it, a group chat between mom, dad, and I, and then talking to Tom during the winter months, during spring of which pastures I want him to feed alfalfa stacks to during a blizzard. Those were things we couldn't do 10 years, 15 years ago on our ranch. And that's changed. I mean, how do I don't even know what we would do if we didn't have it, which is scary to think about, but it's a very simple answer, but the, that tool with communication, with having the service to text each other and immediately know what each other needs and wants, that has been, just been awesome. I mean, we all still have business fan radios and all the tractors, but we don't even know if half the work, because we know that each one of us have the phone and even having another phone on the ranch, just for the hired man, when they, when they come to that day or something like that, just having another phone, we can justify paying that monthly charge, just like communication.
Shaye Koester (15:19):
Well, that is interesting to hear, I guess from my end, I always grew up with full service. So it's always, I mean, my grandparents didn't or don't necessarily, but it's always interesting. Right. It's like, I always had it. Yeah.
David Schuler (15:32):
Yeah. Um, I always try to catch myself like once a week so I can, man, how would we do any of this stuff without we did it, but I don't know how, I mean, it was, it was something else.
Shaye Koester (15:42):
Yeah. So what would you say is one of the bigger challenges you face just with trying to manage the labor resources? I mean, I know you have some help, but obviously you're still short on help if you're looking for more. Um, but yeah. What is one of the bigger challenges you face?
David Schuler (15:59):
I would say the, the biggest challenge is turnover. You know, we're in our industry, we're very reliant on word of mouth and how to train an employee. It's not a three-ring binder of your job, which I hope to make one day that I I'm always working on something that I could give an employee two weeks before they get here to like maybe discuss some of these things. But I find it difficult for us to, you know, we all like to have our ranch ran the way we want it to. And then on the other flip side, being told every single detail what to do, you know, what pack pickups to use to pull what trailers, you know, what nooks and crannies you need to know and expect to know. There's no way you're going to get all that across. So the training period to be comfortable with each other is very, very long. And with turnover rates becoming lower and lower and lower, you know, back in the day, back in the day as a like a hundred years ago, you would be an apprentice to a job. And that was your job, a Shoemaker or a blacksmith. And nowadays it's such a different deal where jobs intertwine every 18 months to a year on average for people from 20 to 30 years old, that's something that our industry, especially for us, it's just not, uh, we're not caught up with that. So being able to train faster is going to be huge in the future and trying to figure out how to keep them around, I guess, in a pleasant way, I guess. And it's not because maybe that we didn't get along either. Maybe they just found an opportunity to be closer to their family or this wasn't quite what they wanted to do. It's it could be a positive, um, separation from each other as well, from whatever that we obtain. So that is probably the biggest issue moving forward is trying to figure out how to minimize turnover rates and train easily without stepping on each other's toes and being able to talk things out. I find myself talking to people as they're like sixth graders sometimes because some people love to have every single detail and I'm very detail oriented when I want to explain something, because I want to be the guy that tells you exactly how I want it before you do it. Instead of being the guy that tells you how you did it wrong. So that's probably my biggest part of my brain when I'm talking to, to labor force on how we're going to an employees, how we're going to do things. And some people don't like that. They don't, they want to be, have a little bigger leash, but for us, we want you to be able to be proven to have that bigger leash as well. So long answer again, but that's kind of where the biggest challenge comes from.
Shaye Koester (18:31):
Yeah, no, it is hard to try not to be the micromanager, but still make sure everything gets done right the first time so that you save time and don't have to do it twice.
David Schuler (18:40):
Yeah. It's, this comes back to having Dad, Mother and I, and Stephanie and my sister working together for all these years. You know, we're not used to having the fifth wheel to that or the have more moving parts. So it'll take effort for us once we find that perfect fit to take. Like I said, take that step back to train the right way to let them have, you know, their leash and not micromanage them as well. Uh, we just got to get to that point where we can, they, uh, they step up as well as we have the responsibility of teaching them the right way too.
Shaye Koester (19:17):
Yeah, absolutely. So with that, just some general questions about your operations. So you've talked about like cattle handling. You'll like maybe some of your bigger days you'll bring some people in, but what else do you do to kind of manage that so that you can keep other parts moving on your ranch at the same time?
David Schuler (19:31):
Right. So I'm going to talk probably predominantly about the cattle handling aspects of this. Growing up cattle handling was a five to six person job with our facility where we needed at least two people to fill the alleyway, two people to move the cattle down, that alleyway and two people at the chute. And we've narrowed that down to two to three people out of necessity, more than anything, uh, building a new facility back when I was a senior in high school and making it so that isn't just a big deal to work cattle where that's like one of our daily jobs. Because there's a lot of cattle that goes through that chute, whether that's breeding season, testing bulls, weaning calves, bumping calves, it's all part of the job. It's part of ranching. So we can't say that those are big days and that has been probably the greatest investment, a ranch in the last 10 years, uh, four wheelers and the cattle facility of making it with the bud box double alley open system where it's low stress, that we can actually work the cattle with two to three people that's changed the game.
David Schuler (20:28):
So that's the biggest part of it. And being able to know that we can work cattle if we don't have anyone else there helping us. And it'll still take just a morning or maybe a little bit longer after work. So as I've come back, I've found my, the second part of your question is how do I manage that for the bigger days that we want more help? That would be more of a asking my friends, you know, what are they up to? Or I have a good friend who works near Bayard, who has some times off, and I'll coordinate with him on where he works atthe feedlot andwhat days I can maybe steal them better lack of a better term. So we can work a group of cows for ourselves, as well as the neighbors that help us out too, in exchanging labor in that force. And then I'll communicate that with dad of what days are available, that we can maybe work the heifers or test bulls and those sorts of things. So kind of be the middleman between all of that, making them, putting the grease on the wheel kind of thing.
Shaye Koester (21:22):
Yeah. Awesome. So that kind of led into the next question. So do you, you, have you found it more efficient to use ATVs or horses? Where's your operation on that side?
David Schuler (21:32):
Right, and this is a touchy subject. I bet for some people, but for our ranch and how we operate, uh, ATVs are a no brainer. It's in the last 20 years when the first ATV came here in the late 1990s it has changed our ranch productivity and not saying it's the perfect way to do things and there's ranches I've been to where I would say the four-wheeler there's probably the most useless piece of machinery on the ranch and the horses, the most valuable, uh, up in the pine Ridge places. But for us, we're built for four-wheelers and we have five, four-wheelers on the ranch and there's three people that use them at the moment. I mean, that's how valuable they are to us.
Shaye Koester (22:10):
Yeah. So then, um, for when you're like moving cattle, do you use dogs with that too?
David Schuler (22:16):
Yup. Again, so we need to be able to know that we can move cattle without having extra hands on deck. Uh, and we have our number one employee Josie completely forgot to talk about her national runner-up farm dog of the year in 2019. God bless her. She is a very vital part of our operation. It comes to moving cattle and, uh, we are definitely going to have to find a replacement for her soon for her to teach. But we do not like working our cattle back. We like worked her in from the side and removing them. So we, even our hired hands or anyone, we teach them to work them on the side to move the cattle and we allow Josie our dog to just take care of the backside, uh, to, you know, bring up the, bring up the rear. So when it comes down to it I can't imagine not having that dog back there to help us out. Uh, but when it comes, the four-wheeler part is pretty integral with that too.
Shaye Koester (23:08):
And it's just the one dog that you use.
David Schuler (23:11):
Yup, yup. Yup. Yeah. That's a story for another day, but I'm just trying to figure out how I I've been very adamant that I don't want a dog yet, but I think mom's getting pretty antsy for me to train the next dog and she's not going to have to.
Shaye Koester (23:24):
So how old is?
David Schuler (23:27):
Oh, she's got to be 12, 12 years old now, but yeah. Josie needs an apprentice to teach her the ways and chase, teach them how to chase squirrels the right way too, I guess it's been, it's been very good to have Josie around this cool part of my life is learning a lot from her. She's, uh, she's been well to be 72 months in a room employee of the month, I think. So that good run, good run going.
Shaye Koester (23:57):
She's not ready to share the spotlight then.
David Schuler (24:00):
Yeah. I don't think she would be.
Shaye Koester (24:03):
So with all that going on, I mean, know, this is difficult for any like farmer ranch lifestyle. We typically forget to take care of ourselves. So how do you make sure to do that? I mean, just with everything going on,
David Schuler (24:17):
Um, yeah. Mental health is huge when it comes to our industry where we are probably one of the least, um, one of the least, least in the right word, but we do not notice mental health in the agriculture industry at all, and it needs to change. And I think the next generation is a lot better at maybe seeing that mental health aspect of how important it is. So it's, it's interesting to me to figure out what do I need to be better off through my day-to-day mental capabilities. And part of that's just taking time when you're out working cattle to realize you're having the best job in the world, just raising the best sources of food in the world. And I say that, and not just like a cliche thing, but like there's days where you're mad at a cow or you're, you're frustrated how things are going, but you just gotta look around for a second and realize you're working outside.
David Schuler (25:08):
You have no CDC restrictions in your job. You're out there just, just living the dream. People will literally just kill to be where you're at. And I like to tell people that they vacation, where I live. I like Florida only a little different, but just taking a second to realize that this is a really cool way of life, where I can work outside have fresh air every day. And even during the busy days, um, a hard day of ranching is a good day. How's that go? A hard day of ranching is better than a good day in the office or something like that. So for me, it's just taking a step back and just looking around and seeing the bigger picture. And for everyone, we all have to find it that way of helping ourselves and, and be better for it.
Shaye Koester (25:53):
That's awesome to hear. And yeah, mental health is not really, I mean, it's getting to be talked about a little more, but it's still not fully recognized by everyone. Well, and so shifting gears a second. So do you, when you are say harvesting, but still have the cattle side going on, because fall is such a busy season for farming and ranching, do you typically bring in a lot more help to come handle the harvesting side while you guys are working cattle? Or how do you handle that?
David Schuler (26:19):
Yes. Uh, we have to be able to hire that part of it done. We'd like to do as much farming as we can possible for our own margins, but when it comes down to planting and harvesting, we have to hire that done, and we're lucky to have good friends and neighbors that, that have a business being custom farm operators. Uh, we have the ability to plant ourselves, but, um, that's right during breeding season and a very busy time ourselves, again, just trying to bring in other employees and friends of mine to come help us during those times a year. And I'm lucky to have good friends that like come out and help to, uh, shout out to them, uh, during harvest, yes, you gotta hire that all all done. And it's a, it's a stressful time, you know, long days and nights. But again, back to the mental health part, I love being able to share this operation with as many people as possible and seeing this big giant machine work and being maybe the oil that makes the machine work and what dad and I may do to go from harvesting to weaning calves, to loading trucks, to working at the elevator, all that coming together. I love the task of trying to make sure that all works the best as possible and waking up the next day, knowing that they rely on you to make that work. So definitely got to bring them in, but we're lucky in a situation where we have friends that it's, it's assumed that they come help us and we do it. It's a celebration, you know, back in the day, harvest, you have a harvest festivals, you know, you gotta, you gotta have a great mentality and a great mindset during those stressful days like that.
Shaye Koester (27:50):
Oh, absolutely. You brought up, you know, sharing your operation. I believe you had a video that went completely viral.
David Schuler (27:58):
Yeah that was insane. I draw these photos with cattle that are on the stocks during the winter months and they just come and eat up everything that I put in front of them because they enjoy what I feed them. And I was at a loss, what I was going to do this year. And I saw this health symbol and I'm like, that would be cool to weigh it up because we have friends who are healthcare workers and family, and some we could send to them. So we sent to a couple of them individually, and then they started posting on their Facebooks that video. And I'm like, well, shoot. I was actually going to, I probably should watermark that with a fiddleback on it. But anyway, I posted on Facebook a couple days for Christmas. The next thing you know, I mean, that was, that was so cool. Uh, I'm still trying to bring that intel that that went viral, but we're up to 24,000 shares on the KRVN post and it was on ABC news this morning, the show this morning, wherever it is. And, uh, yeah, I was, they keep asking what I'm getting your next year, but I'm not going to think about next year. I want to just take in this and put it out there for the healthcare workers this year. And we'll worry about next year and what global crisis we will be in then I guess
Shaye Koester (29:02):
A lot changes in 12 months. Yeah.
David Schuler (29:05):
I'm not going to decide that right now. So I literally thought at one day drew it out the next day and next thing you know, it was just, it was out there. So
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Do you have any other strategies or anything else on your notes that you wanted to share?
David Schuler (29:19):
Oh, there's one part I, a good ending thought is with all this new technologies, labor force, changing industry and agriculture, um, there's something that is kind of my rock or what I like to think about when I make decisions and, and work on these things. Donnell Brown down in the RA Brown Ranch is a great talk and transition through the families of what we need to what they do, I guess, to, to keep celebrating a way of ranching. And he says, you don't have to change the way you ranch, but you're going to have to compete with the people that do. So we can celebrate our histories as ranchers and do it however we want to. But if we don't embrace cheerfully, these new things that make our ranch more efficient and more sustainable, we may just fall behind to the people that do. Uh, so I try to think of that when it comes down to technology with the labor force or things on our own ranch to run efficiently and sustainably. And that's just my ending thoughts, I guess.
Shaye Koester (30:20):
Awesome. Well, thank you very much for taking time out of your day to come visit over zoom with me.
David Schuler (30:25):
Yeah. You bet. Hope things are going good, North Dakota.
Shaye Koester (30:29):
Yep. And that's a wrap on that one. Thank you for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed hearing from David. Again. I know it was about a year ago when I released the first episode with him, he always has great insight. He's great to have on the show. And he offered a lot of ideas and advice on how his family keeps things running. And I think there's a lot of value in hearing those real situations and scenarios. So thank you again, David. And if you like what you're hearing, please be sure to let me know whether that's a direct message email. Um, give me a shout out on social media. I always appreciate those share the podcast you guys like. I always say you've been awesome about it so far, and I mean it, but it really does help me keep this going and be on the lookout this summer for more advancements as I am actually going to be putting a lot more time into this. I did not take on a full-time internship. I took on a part-time one, so I could spend more time on this. So with that, have a great day and keep falling along. It's great to have you on the ride with me.
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