Improving Mental and Physical Health in the Ranching Community

 Shaye Koester (00:00):

Hey, hey it's Shaye Koester and I'm your host for Casual Cattle Conversations, where we are talking about all topics related to ranching, through sharing the stories and practices of different ranchers and their operations. We are building a community and fostering innovation within the ranching industry through this podcast and my social media pages. So to be a more involved member of this community, please go check out those pages and join the conversation. Follow cattleconvos on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and YouTube to join in on my live events and the discussions about each episode and other topics that relate to you and your operation. Now, if you'd like to become a greater part of this podcast that is impacting all 50 states, as well as several other countries, please be sure to reach out to me via email direct message, or you can find the necessary contact information for me by clicking the link in my social media bios, or go into my website, casualcattleconversations.podbean.com. But with that, thanks for tuning in. I'm glad to have you here and let's hear who our guest is today.

Shaye Koester (01:25):

Alrighty, folks, we are back again and today we get to hear from Kirsten Angell and she is going to share her story and a little bit about her background in agriculture, but she's been on this episode before where she talked about coming back to her family's operation. But she's going to share a little more this time. She's going to share a little bit more about her passion, her passion for helping others live healthier lifestyles, and being the best version of themselves they can be. A passion for improving mental and physical health and your overall nutrition. Kirsten has the opportunity to help different farmers and ranchers do this for themselves and she comes from a background where she understands how hard it is to take care of yourself when you're in the beef industry and ranching. She knows how difficult it can be to take care of yourself properly. So, she shares her experience and her tips and tricks and some more information that you will be able to go to later. But with that, thanks for tuning in and let's get on with the episode.

Kirsten Angell (02:38):

Hello, Shaye.

Shaye Koester (02:42):

Okay. So to start off, kind of a fun question, if you could be any animal on your ranch, which one would you be and why?

Kirsten Angell (02:52):

Oh, I would definitely be Sadie the cow dog. I tell her all the time that she has the best life and I want to be her. She has owners that love her and spoil her and she gets to just do what she wants, when she wants.

Shaye Koester (03:13):

Good life. Sounds like a typical cow dog life.

Kirsten Angell (03:17):

She's kind of a retired cow dog now. She had a surgery last fall that put her into retirement it hasn't changed her spunk.

Shaye Koester (03:28):

The retired cow dog life seems to even be a little more spoiled.

Kirsten Angell (03:33):

Although she wants to be out there working cattle. So that was an easy question.

Shaye Koester (03:40):

Well, I'm glad it was easy question. We'll see how the rest of them go. But anyway, so I know you've been on the show before and we talked about your experience returning back to your family operation, but for those who maybe haven't heard that, would you please talk about your background in ranching?

Kirsten Angell (03:59):

Sure. I'm fourth generation on my family's ranch and so I was born into it, I guess you would say. I was gone of course to college twice. I have two degrees and and then I did a stint in Nebraska for awhile after I went to college the first time. I worked. I had my own business then sold it and went back to school. But other than that, I've pretty much been out here. Even when I lived away, I always came back to help at some time of the year. So that's kinda my background. I was, I was born into it. I love it. I've been doing it my whole life.

Kirsten Angell (04:43):

Oh, that's awesome to hear. So what are you doing now then? As far as your business off of the ranch or outside of ranching, I should say.

Kirsten Angell (04:53):

Right. So I own Link4Nutrition and I still have a division of Link4Nutrition called Link4Diabetes. Initially when I first started my business, I focused on the Link4Diabetes portion because when I went back to school to be a dietician, I knew I wanted to become a certified diabetes care and education specialist because my dad got diagnosed with diabetes. I also knew that rural America, Western Kansas, where I'm from was underserved in that area, in the area of diabetes education. And so when I went back to school, I know I wanted to start my own business out here in Western Kansas doing diabetes education. And I did that, but I feel like I can reach more people, help more farmers and ranchers by transitioning to what I now do with my business Link4Nutrition, linking both sides of the plate at the table, where ag and nutrition meet before the plate. I focus on advocating and my audience there is kind of the healthcare population and on the other side of the plate, I focus on helping farmers and ranchers live healthy lives in the areas of nutrition, physical activity, and mental and emotional wellbeing. And of course my audience serves farmers or ranchers. So that's kind of how I transitioned from going back to school as a dietician to where I am today.

Shaye Koester (06:28):

Well, that's really neat that you have like both sides of the plate, but especially how you're working with farmers and ranchers on the health side. I mean, mental and physical with the nutrition aspect too, because I mean, that's just been a very hot topic, I guess, because it's been an issue for a long time, but now it's starting to kind of be talked about more.

Kirsten Angell (06:51):

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Shaye Koester (06:53):

So you've kind of explained what inspired Link4Nutrition, but is there anything else that you would say inspired you to start that?

Kirsten Angell (07:02):

Not really. And just the, I told you it kind of more about what inspired me to start it, but I've just recently pivoted, I guess, as the new word for business. And like I said, I just wanted to be able to reach more farmers and ranchers through. And I guess I didn't mention how I do that. I do that through public speaking group presentations and blog posts and, and things like that.

Shaye Koester (07:39):

Awesome. So how has your education with nutrition and health either contradicted or complemented what you see in the ranching lifestyle?

Kirsten Angell (07:53):

Well I had to think about that question a little bit. I'll disclose that you sent those to me early. I'm sure everybody knows that. And so, as I thought about it, the way, I guess, I don't know if my education contradicts the farming or ranching lifestyle, but there are some dieticians who advocate or push for choosing to be vegan or vegetarian for reasons based on misinformation. That's why my, before the plate presentations focus on the health profession audience, especially dieticians to clear up misinformation about ranching and all things, cattle and beef production. So that's kind of how, I guess if you would use the word contradicting that's, that's kind of how they contradict. But as far as how they compliment each other on the other side of the plate I can relate to the challenges of farmers and ranchers and trying to live a healthy lifestyle with our profession. And then I can also speak on both sides of the plate regarding where food and beef in particular comes from all the way from not only pasture to plate, but actually from conception to plate. So I feel that's how, how my education and ranching background compliment each other.

Shaye Koester (09:33):

Well. That's awesome. I mean, I think it's pretty neat for you to be on that side of it. So kind of diving deeper into it on the nutrition side. I mean, you live the lifestyle too. You work with other people who live it, you've been around it your whole life, but what are some of the nutritional mistakes you kind of see ranchers make when trying to live healthier lifestyles with the tough lifestyle they live.

Kirsten Angell (10:00):

Right. Right. So the first thing that comes to mind is we care for everything and everybody before ourselves. Yeah. You're shaking your head. Yes. The other thing that that comes to mind is, is not exclusive to the farming and ranching profession. It's just like in all professions farmers and ranchers and everybody follows the latest FAD diet, the latest trend in eating and nutrition. Everybody wants a magic bullet versus making lasting behavior changes that aren't easy, but they can be done by a dietician and that's what we do. We help people make lasting behavior changes rather than something that is going to work for a short while, but can't be continued for a long period of time or for the rest of their lives.

Shaye Koester (11:11):

Well, absolutely. I think the fad diet thing is an interesting point to bring up. I know, like on my Instagram or social media, there's a new one that pops up about every week trying to get you to change what you're doing and whatnot and making it sound like it happens instantaneously that you'll get the results you want.

Kirsten Angell (11:30):

Right. And, and, you know, sometimes those fad diets, they happen instantaneously, but they don't last. [laughter]

Shaye Koester (11:39):

So what is one step that could be taken, say today for a farmer or rancher who wants to make a change in their nutrition?

Kirsten Angell (11:51):

Well, there is one major, just one thing you asked for one thing, and that one thing is a readiness and willingness to change. If somebody is not ready and willing to change, no one else is gonna get them to change, make them change. It all has to come from within. Now, we can, we can pray for our families and our friends and ask God to intervene, but until it's time and that person's ready and willing, they're not going to change very, very much or for very long.

Shaye Koester (12:28):

So say like they are willing and ready to change. What's kind of one of their first initial steps towards that change once they get to that point and are ready to commit to that change in lifestyle,

Kirsten Angell (12:39):

Right? So admitting you, you want help and then seeking help. And, when it comes to nutrition, registered dieticians we're the experts in nutrition. So hopefully if someone is seeking a change in the area of nutrition, they will seek out a registered dietician rather than the internet or well-meaning friends or even their medical doctor. Medical doctors have enough on their plate. They utilize registered dieticians to help their patients in the area of nutrition. So, that's the first step. If it's in nutrition, reach out to us, the registered dieticians.

Shaye Koester (13:22):

Awesome. So what about those busy times of year when nutrition is hard and it's much easier to grab a bag of Doritos and just go hop in the tractor or hop in the side-by-side what's a better answer to that issue,

Kirsten Angell (13:39):

Right. Right. Well, just like anything, and I know this is near and dear to your heart Shaye. You're very good at planning and not only planning, but planning ahead, which maybe those are one in the same. But that is key just like being successful with anything, planning and planning ahead. So in the non-busy times doing batch cooking and putting it in the freezer and having just some really easy grabbing go foods instead of Doritos. I just got done having a snack. Before we started our interview today, I had string cheese and whole wheat crackers. Triscuits actually are what I had. Or, you know, baby carrots, health-food has also become convenient recently. So like baby carrots or grape tomatoes. Have fresh fruits and vegetables already cut up and maybe even put in baggies so you can just grab some of those baggies and go. Then have our proteins like lean beef prepared ahead of time and, you know, have again that batch cooking, just brown a bunch of hamburger and this isn't grab and go snacks. This is just more for meals. Some things like that, but these, these tips and I'll stop with these very specific tips because the planning and planning ahead was the big key, but these specific tips or things that I talk about in my other side of the plate presentation to farmers and ranchers.

Shaye Koester (15:20):

Well, awesome. And thank you for that. And so we're kind of going to switch gears off of nutrition and maybe go on a topic that's a little harder to speak about and that's the mental health topic. So what are some of the main mental health issues that you see?

Kirsten Angell (15:38):

Well, before we transition or as we transition to the mental health topic, I want to note that even though this podcast interview is not going to air until I think July I saw in your schedule, we're doing this interview here at the end of May and May is actually mental health awareness month. So kind of ironic that we're talking about that here in May. So you asked about some mental health issues that I often see and the obvious ones are depression and anxiety and, and those are, those are probably the most common and the ones that we hear the most about and kind of what I see and also what others can actually see. I'm not diminishing those by any means, but it's the ones that you don't easily see that can be potential stumbling blocks. Some of those include bipolar, and bipolar can kind of go either way, it's becoming more common. But it still maybe is kind of one of them that you don't see, but a couple of others that you maybe don't see are ADHD and OCD. Believe it or not, OCD is, is a mental health issue. It can be debilitating and ADHD can too and I can talk for a long period of time about that. I've done a lot of research on it just because of a loved one in my life that I believe maybe has had some of that. I'll just briefly talk a little bit about it. ADHD is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and there used to be ADD, but there is no longer ADD. So there are just about two different types of ADHD and then one that combines those two.

Kirsten Angell (17:40):

One is hyperactivity, but the other one is called compulsive. And so it's just, you know, you'll do things on impulse. Then the third one is combining the hyperactivity and the compulsiveness. So ADHD and OCD can be very debilitating and you just don't really realize that it's happening. You don't realize what's going on and the reasons that things are going on. So those are some of the things that I see and have experienced in my own life.

Shaye Koester (18:31):

Well, thank you for sharing. So how can ranchers strengthen their mental health if they have accepted that they need to improve in that area.

Kirsten Angell (18:44):

I'm glad you said that that's the first step is accepting or, you know, that you need help or admitting that you need help. People can seek out and your medical doctor can help with that. There are medications. And one thing that I want to say is people shouldn't be ashamed. This, this is just like any other health issue. There has been a stigma around mental health for quite some time, and there still is. But like you said earlier, that stigma is starting to diminish a little bit. And so that's a good thing, but other than admitting you, you have an issue and want help and seeking out that medical help, whether it's from your medical doctor and or a psychologist or psychiatrist, just some things that you can do on your own is, I'm just gonna shoot right to the big, main answer and punchline, is grow your spiritual life and develop your relationship with Christ because the only true peace and happiness that can come comes through him.

Kirsten Angell (19:58):

So that's the big one. Deep breathing is one of the things that people can do. And that one's kind of in the moment, if you have something that just really is stressing you out or makes you mad or something like that. And this is kind of for, you know, there are lots of mental health issues, so this was maybe more for like anxiety or something like that. Just take some very deep breaths. That's one thing that can help. Then maybe some bigger picture ones would be physical activity. When I say that I mean intentional exercise. As ranchers, we get tons of physical activity, but we really need that intentional physical activity or exercise. Being outdoors is another one and again, most of us as ranchers are outdoors a lot. I think sometimes maybe the managers and just all of us, there's more to do indoors now. You've got all the office work to do and things like that. And so being outdoors has scientifically proven to help mental and emotional wellbeing. Also the physical activity is scientifically proven too. All of these all the information I give out is research based. So anyway, and then the last one is humor and an example I'll give, and it, I think this is okay to tell you on the podcast. I love Jeff Dunham. I don't know how many people know Jeff Dunham but he's a ventriloquist comedian. I just get the best belly laughs out of him. And you don't always have to see him in person he's on TV a lot. So yeah, those are some some tips to help with your mental health kind of giving away all my secrets from my presentation.

Shaye Koester (22:04):

Well, I appreciate it. So as say a family member, what's one thing like if a family member notices that someone they're working with on their ranch, or maybe even a coworker, not even a family member, but a coworker notices that someone is needs to make changes in their mental health how can they act with that person, maybe?

Kirsten Angell (22:28):

That is not easy at all and sometimes it depends on your relationship. It depends on your approach. You have to probably be very gentle, look for the right opportunity. It truly takes training. I feel like almost some people are better at it naturally than others, but in my profession as a registered dietician, my goodness, I did not know I was going to be a psychologist or a counselor as much as I am a dietician. It has taken me a lot of practice to know how to tactfully talk to people about things like that. And, when it's someone you're even closer to, sometimes it's not as well-received. So I don't know that I'm answering your question very well, other than it takes practice and, and just a gentle gentle discussion.

Shaye Koester (23:40):

Well, I think that's an awesome answer because every person's different and every relationship between two people is different, so it is going to take practice. So what are some changes that producers could try and make to improve this on their own.

Kirsten Angell (24:09):

My answer for that was that I don't think there are any small and easy changes. So just some of the things that I've mentioned before some of the ways that people can strengthen their mental health. Physical activity is a big one, really big one. Then there are some nutrition things and basically the overall broad answer regarding nutrition is eat a well balanced, healthy meal plan. But everybody knows that what we as dietitians do is help people do that. And so that goes back to that, working with a registered dietician to do that. But because there are some foods that are beneficial there is a lot of up and coming research about the gut brain relationship. And so what we put in our mouth that reaches our gut or stomach does affect our mental health. That's maybe a whole nother podcast interview, but you know, high fiber, which comes from fruits, vegetables, whole grains. That's not to say that our lean beef is not needed. It is, but maybe not as much for our mental health it's for other purposes. And so probably the physical activity and there is that gut brain connection. And then being outdoors really helps also. So those are some things that they can start with again, and then your relationship with the good Lord.

Shaye Koester (26:02):

Yeah, absolutely. So where can ranchers go for community around all these topics on health, both physical and mental.

Kirsten Angell (26:12):

So some of the resources that I provide in my presentation include the farm crisis center. And once you get there and it's a website, you can just go to the farm crisis center. Once you get there, there are a ton more links to other resources. And then the national suicide prevention hotline or lifeline, I can't remember if it's called hotline or lifeline. I think it's called lifeline maybe. Again, you can Google that and we want to try to help people prevent from getting to that point, but there is that, and then there's a farmer psychologist named Michael Rosman, and he has a website that I don't, I don't believe it's real up to date, but the information there is still pertinent or relevant. And it's obviously he still obviously is active and he focuses on mental health and the farming and ranching community. Then, I don't know if you have heard of Michelle Payne with Cause Matters. She totally focuses on the mental and emotional wellbeing of the farming and ranching community, and also having a healthy relationship with food. She talks a lot about food bullying and bowl speak. She calls it, BS is bowl speak. And so those are some of the resources. And once you go to Michelle's websites she has a whole lot of other resources as well. If you go to my website, Link4Nutrition under resources, I have some of these same resources listed. So hopefully those will be helpful for people.

Shaye Koester (28:03):

Well, awesome and as we wrap up here today, do you have any other comments you want to make on mental and physical health health for ranchers?

Kirsten Angell (28:12):

Right. So the one thing that I will say and I kind of alluded to it earlier is there's quite a stigma around mental health and behavioral health issues. And, you know, if somebody has cancer and they tell others, they have cancer, people surround them with compassion and love. And if someone says they have a mental health issue, it's like everybody scatters, unfortunately. And, but also like what we talked about I think mental health awareness is becoming more relevant and more pertinent and there's not as much stigma around it. I guess what I would say to people is something that a dear late friend posted about oh, less than a year before she passed. And basically it was a message to parents, with kids, with ADHD. She said, "Admit it deal with it. Quit being embarrassed about it. Quit thinking that if you do admit it, that your kids are going to be treated any differently because they already are being treated differently." and that was kind of her brief message. I would say that's kind of the same with mental health issues is people with mental health issues are already being treated differently. So admit it and deal with it. And hopefully that will make those relationships that are challenged because of a mental health issue, hopefully that, that will make them less strained. And so, and then if, you know, if someone does admit it, surround them and help them. That's the first thing they need. The last thing they need is to be rejected.

Shaye Koester (30:20):

Well, that was all amazing. Thank you very much for sharing a lot of your advice and insight on this topic. Thanks for joining the show.

Kirsten Angell (30:32):

Absolutely. And I just want to say if people want more information, I would love to speak to any group that's interested in learning more about the nutrition and physical activity and mental, emotional wellbeing.

Shaye Koester (30:50):

Well, awesome. Thank you very much. And we'll make sure to include the link to your website in the show notes.

Kirsten Angell (30:56):

All right. Thank you so much, Shaye.

Shaye Koester (30:59):

And that's a wrap on that one. Folks. Thank you again for tuning in and thank you Kirsten for sharing your expertise and knowledge. Remember if you are interested in hearing more from her and getting more tips and tricks, or even some recipes to go back to you that are healthy and include beef, go follow her social media Link4Nutrition. She does an amazing job sharing some tips and tricks there. And with that, stay tuned for upcoming episodes. You guys have been absolutely amazing and have a great rest of your week.

 

A Lifetime of Entrepreneurship in the Beef Industry with Paul Engler

 Shaye Koester (00:00):

Hey, Hey, it's Shaye Koester and I'm your host for Casual Cattle Conversations, where we talk about all things related to ranching, through sharing the stories and practices of different ranchers and their operations. Alrighty folks, thanks for tuning in again for this episode. It is my pleasure to offer you an episode with Mr. Paul Engler. Now, Paul is known for many things in the beef industry, especially in the cattle feeding industry. However, I know Paul as the individual who founded the Engler Entrepreneurship Program and because of his investment into his program and founding it, that's the reason we have this podcast today. That's the reason I have this podcast and have found my way to this space. His investment has truly impacted many individuals in the entrepreneurship space and the beef industry. I hope you enjoy all the knowledge that Paul shares today. It's an outstanding interview. I was elated before, after, and during the interview. He was just so great to visit with and truly someone who makes the fire in your belly burn a little brighter. With that, please soak in all the advice Paul offers. I know I did. I know I soak in more and more each and every time I listen. So with that, let's get on with the episode, but please remember to give me a like, share or shout out on social media. Comment what you've learned today on my social media pages. Let's have those conversations. You guys have been absolutely outstanding and I want to keep serving you. So with that, get involved. It's awesome. I'd love to interact with you even more and build up the community. So with that, let's get on with the episode and hear what Paul has to say.

Platform Cattle (02:01):

But first let's hear from today's sponsor Platform Cattle. Cattlemen provide stewardship for our land and husbandry to our cattle. Platform Cattle is a brand that provides those cattlemen with the tools and products they deserve to have. Founded by a fifth-generation rancher that shares the passion behind the cattle industry, Platform Cattle wants to help introduce new ways to help cowboys and not change them. Platform Cattle is proud to be able to introduce a product that does just that. Bovibox is the first ever free choice protein supplement for cattle that carries a live probiotic post-production, which can enhance gut health, improve immunity response, increase mineral absorption and strengthen cattle performance. Bovibox includes a full mineral package as well featuring Avali 4 by Zinpro performance minerals. It fits right into natural, value-added and NHTC value-added protocols and is made into 100-pound blocks that are packaged in a completely biodegradable cardboard box. So there's no more picking tubs out of the fence or pond. Manufactured by Agri beef. This makes Bovibox truly made for cattle and designed by cattlemen. For more information about Bovibox and the ways it can fit into your operation visit platformcattle.com or call Emmet Storer at (308) 650-1897.

Shaye Koester (03:15):

Would you please start and share how you became involved in the beef industry?

Paul Engler (03:21):

I'd be more than happy to do that. It has been told time and time again, but I always enjoy telling it. And actually it was a major event in my life. I grew up in a small town in north central, Nebraska, about 500 people. My father had a filling station and so he believed in real strong workmanship ethics and so forth. He puts you to work really early and in my case, I was six years old in the filling station, checking tires, airing tires, or washing windshields. Well, to be real frank, I didn't like it and it was easy for him to see that I didn't like it. So he thought, well, maybe if we get an introduction to livestock he'll like that. So he bought one cow. It was a Jersey milk cow.

Paul Engler (04:40):

We had a barn and bought four acres of land adjacent to the town of Bassett and my job was to milk the cow and so on. Well, one cow went to two cows, then three cows and so we sold milk. At that time this was pre pasteurization days. It was a big time actually. You see the market was good for that type of product because these were hard times. They were in the depression, the Great Depression. The cream would rise to the top and that was the cream that people use. We sold our milk for 10 cents a quart, which today doesn't sound like very much but then it was different. Then the only competition we had was another milk supplier in town. They sold their milk for 8 cents. We got 10 cents because ours was cleaner.

Paul Engler (05:55):

And it was my job to take care of the cows and to deliver the milk. My sister would help me fill the bottles. So that was my first taste in business, which was important also. You know, people paid on a monthly basis and sometimes you run across people, they'll say, "Paul, you know, we just don't have the money to pay it this week. You know, can we wait another month?" So I learned all that, which is extremely important and particularly at my age. So, but anyway, it got too big and of course cows had to be milked before we went to school which required getting up pretty early. It just got too much and so we sold the milk cows and then he bought what are called stocker cattle. Stocker calves, which were calves weaned off their mothers in the fall of the year and then kept over winter and fed a minimum gain.

Paul Engler (07:14):

Then they were pastured and the following summer, but those cows had to be, had to be hayed, fed hay and a supplement and all of my job after I got out of school and evening was go out and take care of his cattle. Well, my father was a great man and a great father, but one of these things that used to irritate me is he never paid you any money for your work. If you needed some money to buy a new pair of shoes, you'd get that or a pari coveralls or overalls, whatever it might be. But, you just didn't get paid and a lot of other kids had an allowance. He didn't do that sort of thing. So it irritated me so bad that I had to do something about it. Well, in the meantime, I'd gotten a job up at the Livestock Auction at Bassett. I got excused from school on Wednesdays and on Wednesdays I'd go up there and work at the auction. I observed what was going on a little bit and learned about the business.

Paul Engler (08:40):

So when my father had a business trip where he was gone for about three days, I went up to my usual employment and went in and bought myself a hundred head of cattle at the auction. When the sale was over, the owner of the auction says, his name was Mr. Lambert. And he said, "Paul, come over here. I've got to talk to ya." So I went over and he says, "You bought some cattle today. How many?" I said, "A hundred head." And he said, "You didn't have any money either?" I said, "no." He said, "Well, how are you going to pay for these cattle?" And I looked at him and I said, "I guess you're going to have to loan me the money." Believe it or not, I was not quite 13 years oldand he said, "Okay."

Paul Engler (09:46):

So  we made it out and so forth and then I got the cattle home and told my mother about it. Of course she had a fit because the first thing she thought was he certainly got cheated, you know, 12 year old boy buying his cattle at the auction. So she went over and talked to a neighbor who had been at the sale. And he said, "Paul knew what he was doing. He did a good job buying his cattle." So she came back and said, "Well, you're still going to get in trouble with your father. You didn't ask him permission." And I really thought she was probably right.

Paul Engler (10:36):

But anyway, we went ahead and I had been planning this for awhile. So I had already gotten a brand and my brand registered. So we had some help. Got the cattle home. Got them branded and then just turned them in with his, my father's. So when he got home in the morning, he said, "Let's go out and look at the cattle." We went out and he said, "The herd got a little bit bigger while I was gone." I said, "Yes." He said, "Well, would you mind telling me about it?" So I did and of course he wanted to know about the money. Well, obviously he didn't want somebody other than him to loan me the money. So we went down the bank and got the papers made out and so forth to pay the loan off. We went out in the pickup and then something happened that I'll never forget as long as I live. I thought, well, now it's going to come. You know, he's gonna get upset and really give me a bad time and perhaps a tongue lashing. But instead of that, he stuck out his hand to shake my hand and he said, "Son, I'm proud of you." Well, that really stayed with me. So I was in the cattle business and the next year I did the same thing. I got raised to and I graduated high school when I was 15 years old. So my father asked me, "What are you going to do now?" I said, "Well, I'm doing pretty good." I had increased my numbers and so forth and he said, "Well, let me make a suggestion. I think you should go to college. You've got enough money that when you sell out at least you can get you started. There will be plenty of time after you get your education that you can get back in the cattle business." And so we did. So that's kinda the story about how I got started. Of course, the cattle business has been really, pretty good to me and we were fortunate enough and hard working enough and entrepreneurial enough you might say that we kept going operations. I had a couple of interludes. I spent three years in the meatpacking business. The old IBP bought my interest out in Texas for me to take a group, vice presidentship office to run the carcass division. I had the cattle buying carcass division, which at that time we had seven plants and the carcass beef sales and the byproducts, and also the hides. And the only thing I knew about the whole business was the cattle purchases and all the rest of it I had to learn.

Shaye Koester (14:33):

So you mentioned that you were entrepreneurial enough. And so one of the many things you're known for is founding Cactus Feeders. So what led to you making that decision?

Paul Engler (14:49):

It really is a nice story or at least for me. I was in partnership and also an employee of Dinklage Cattle Company in Wisner, NE. At that time it was primarily owned by a gentleman named Louis Dinklage. He was the largest cattle feeder in the state and actually he probably was one of the largest in the country. He was not only a wonderful boss, but he helped me you know a good bit. Among my many jobs with him were feeding cattle together and bought farms and all this, and that was to buy, continue to buy feeder cattle. And so I was in Texas actually, at the Hereford, Texas railroad stockyards. We were loading cattle, weigh them up, to push them up to Nebraska when a train pulled into the siding that had been made up in Amarillo, subsequent to the Amarillo livestock auction.

Paul Engler (16:16):

At that time that livestock auction would handle as many as 15,000 cattle on sale day. This train was made up and feeder cattle that had been loaded and grain sorghum, or Milo all destined for Southern California. It was a cattle feeding industry going on out there. At that time there was virtually no commercial cattle feeding in Texas. And so I was talking to a rancher and I said, "This is a terrible mistake." He said, "What do you mean?" I said, "You're exporting the two raw materials that would develop into a cattle feeding industry." And I was very sincere, you know, in telling him that. He said, "Well, we're just waiting for someone like yourself to come down and show us how to do it."

Paul Engler (17:24):

So that's what hatched out. Then I came back and met with Mr. Dinklage and asked what he thought about the prospect of a feeding. He said, "It'll work." I said, "Well, would you mind if I go back down and get a hold of some property for a location and get started?" He said, "No, that's fine." So I went down. I committed on the land always thinking that he would be my partner, because of all these other things we partnered with and he didn't have any children. He treated me like a son and I just assumed that he'd be my partner. We got to moving along and I said something to him and he said, "Well, don't count on me." And I said, "What do you mean don't count?" He said, "It's too far from home." I mean I about fainted because I thought, how in the hell am I going to do this without him?

Paul Engler (18:36):

But, I didn't have any choice. I mean he wasn't kidding. He said no. He never would give me a good answer, but I like to think that it really came down to me leaving. I like to think that he what was disturbed about that part. So, we had we had to split up what we owned together and when you do that, you split up a partnership, oftentimes hard feelings enter into the deal. You start valuing different assets, so forth, and that's precisely what happened. I was committed in Texas and so I loaded the family up and sent them off. I took the old oldest boy, Mike, with me in a pickup and horse trailer to take a couple of horses down. When I went out to tell him Mr. Dinklage, goodbye. He was sorting cattle horseback but he wouldn't stop. He saw me standing there by the fences, you know, but he wasn't stopped until he got his cattle sorted. Then he rode over, leanded over his horse and said, "What do you want? " I stuck out my hand and I said, "Well, I'm ready to go the last thing I wanted to do was tell you, goodbye and thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the wonderful things that you did for me." He wouldn't even shake my hand. He just turned his horse around and rode off. I balled all the way to Texas. That's a fact because here this man had done all these wonderful things for me and this is the way it broke up.

Paul Engler (20:54):

But, I was committed. I had all kinds of obligations. I had to do it. So, we went to work. Now here comes the nice part of the story. We were building pens and so forth and while we're doing this, I started talking up custom cattle feeding to the area because we didn't have enough money raised for capital. I took some Texas people in as partners but we didn't have enough to finance our own cattle ownerships. So we were going to be totally committed to custom feeding for other other accounts. I worked and honest to God fact, I couldn't get anybody committed. Or I'd approach somebody, give them a big deal and of course they didn't know anything about cattle feeding. So of course they said, well, and invariably, they'd say, "Oh, Paul, you know, you're a good guy. We like you and so forth, but we'll see how you get along here going forward." And of course the answer to that one was that "I'm not sure we're going to get along." So we didn't have any prospects when a local rancher drove into the feedyard where we were building this yard. We had always bought his cattle and shipped them to Nebraska. His name was Roger Brumley and he said, "Paul, I'm ready to sell my steers." He started with, "Would you mind calling Mr. Dinklage and see if he's interested?" I said, "I'd be glad to." And I did not talk to him Mr. Dinklage at any time. When I rode off I thought that chapter in my life was all over, but I knew when I told that rancher I'd call him. I knew that Louis would never call him. He would die before he'd ever called me. So I thought, well, I'll just take a shot at it and call him up. I got him on there to tell him about the cattle. I'll never forget. I called him and he said, "Who is this?" He knew who it was. [laughs] I said, "It's Paul." He said, "Paul who?" [laughter] How do you go through that agony? I said, "Well, Roger Brumley asked me to give you a call he's ready to sell his cattle." He strictly said, "I'll be down here in the morning."

Paul Engler (23:46):

He got a guy to help him drive. He drove into the feedyard that next morning, got out of the car and shook my hand just like everything else was history. He said, "Well, Let's go out and buy those steers." We went out and bought the cow. Then he said, "Well, just show me what you are doing here building this feedyard." He wanted to know about some pens and all about that. So, we went out driving around. He said, "Well, are you going to number of these pens?" I didn't have the signs up yet. So he had another other guy to help him drive that down and he said, "Write that number down." And he kept going on. And I said, "What are you doing?" He said, I'm reserving those pens to feed cattle. That's how I got started and then of course he had a good enough reputation with the ranchers and cattle people down there that when they saw him feeding cattle they knew it had to be a good deal. So we couldn't build pens fast enough after that and I got it kind of started. There's a sequel to that story believe it or not. We went ahead and were very successful in the cattle feeding and at that time. Then periodically IBP, which was a predecessor to Tyson they would, well I knew the two founders of IBP when I was up there. Every once in a while, they would approach me about joining their company and they finally made me an offer that I couldn't turn down.

Paul Engler (25:50):

So I moved to Sioux city. I a group was vice president in charge of the fed cattle buying, carcass plants, carcass sales, byproducts and hide divisions. The only thing I knew about it was the cattle buying as we learned the business. But anyway, I was on the board. IBP was a public company and they put me on the board of directors and Mr. Dinklage was also on the board. I hadn't visited with him for several years because after he got me started in Texas there, why a couple three years, he said, "You don't need me any more." He quit feeding cattle down there, so I hadn't had any contact with him.

Paul Engler (26:56):

So it was really a nice deal. When we would go to directors' meetings we'd get together and visit. IBP was very good to me. I had a10 year contract with them but I didn't like the business. Somebody said, "What didn't you like?" and I said, "You know, look, I've spent almost a hundred percent of my life prior to being there, trying to keep cattle alive not to kill him." It was kind of a funny way of putting it, but I really didn't like the business and I wanted to get back cattle feeding. So I did and it was a very favorable exit and so forth. One of the conditions was no press releases on me leaving. So it was kinda a very confidential deal. And so one morning, I hadn't talked to Mr. Dinklage for a couple two or three years, he called me up. He was an early riser. He said, "I understand you're going back to Texas." And I said, "Well, we're not making a big deal out of it, but that's right." He said, "I also understand you're getting back into the cattle feeding business." I said, "Yes." He said, "Well, so and so has 1500 steers out on a ranch north of Amarillo." He said, "You go out there and if they look okay you buy them and we'll partner." He wanted the first cattle back and that feed yard, the second feed yard. And of course here again he was a great customer until I got back in business. So I like to tell the story because I didn't tell you when he hired me. Did I tell you that story?

Shaye Koester (29:17):

You told me before, I've heard you tell it before.

Paul Engler (29:21):

He hired me for $300 a month and I had been making $700. The old saying you came a long way, you know, but he was a very integral part of my life. So then I went back in the business and that's when we started Cactus Feeders. The first go around was what we called the Whole Herford Feedyards.

Shaye Koester (29:56):

You made the comment previously that you weren't sure if you were going to make it, what kept the fire in your belly burning, because you always tell us as Engler students or your quote is all over. Tom always tells us that we have to have a fire in our belly. So what kept that burning even when you thought you might not make it?

Paul Engler (30:16):

I knew we had to make it work. I mean instead of saying, well, I made a mistake I might as well quit building a feedyard and so on and so forth. I had the responsibilities. I still had the fire, but those responsibilities were, I guess you might say some of the coals or embers that kept me going.

Shaye Koester (30:43):

Absolutely.

Paul Engler (30:44):

I made a lot of commitments to a lot of people. Of course I was still sold on the idea of cattle feeding and Texas. And to show you what happened, really the on the cattle on feed numbers, that the USDA publishes, at this time Texas wasn't even on there and then we got the cattle feeding deal started down there. Texas now has been number one for cattle on feed numbers probably for 30 years.

Shaye Koester (31:23):

Wow. So how would you describe your entrepreneurial career in the beef industry?

Paul Engler (31:32):

Well, if you, if you want to be successful and assuming everybody wants to be successful, you've got to be an entrepreneur. There is no ifs and buts about it. I mean you could get five different Harvard graduates go in on a cattle feeding deal who are not entrepreneurs and I swear to God it'd fail, because that part of your belly, you got to have It's just the nature of the business, you know, ups and downs. Of course, there's a lot of failures in the business. They just didn't, you know, it didn't make it. I think it's a true example of entrepreneurship for anybody in that business who continues to be a success.

Shaye Koester (32:41):

Is there anything you would have done differently?

Paul Engler (32:48):

Oh God almighty. I don't have time.

Shaye Koester (32:53):

Is there like one big thing or a big piece of advice you have about something you wish you would have done differently?

Paul Engler (32:59):

Really most of the big failures have been something other than the cattle feeding business, which is another old saying. You better know what the hell you're doing and don't think you're smart enough that you could run some other business. It doesn't work out that way and we are in one of those messes right now. So keep the fire burning.

Shaye Koester (33:40):

What would you say is the greatest thing about being an entrepreneur in the beef industry?

Paul Engler (33:47):

The whole deal in entrepreneurship, you know we argue about it. You probably got exposed to this, you know, with theories and so forth. I still believe that it's something you're born with or not and our job here with the Engler program here and other things I'm associated in is take those individuals that have that spirit, but then develop it and get them steered in the right direction and give them all the assistance that you can. You know, as helpers along the way.

Shaye Koester (34:46):

Absolutely. And that's the experience I've had. I know. So as members of the beef industry, what's something we need to change? Whether that's an attitude, a way of business, what is something we need to change?

Paul Engler (35:00):

Well, if you combine three sectors of the livestock business it'd be the producer or the rancher he's at, he's at the bottom of the deal, then you've got the cattle feeder, and then you have the meat-packer, that's the three sections. Of course, then you go on up into the food service, people, retailers, so on, so forth,. But back to the previous sectors. For the system to work correctly is that you got premium markets and all the things that go along with it is that one sector historically would get along a little bit better just because, you know, the supply and demand situation. Everything is on, you know, free market basis. So the cattle feeders are a little bit short on numbers and ranchers, you know, numbers are a little bit lower and so on and so forth.

Paul Engler (36:04):

So those prices rise, and that rancher gets a little bit bigger piece of the pie, but it's still a pie. And then the same thing will come along with a cattle feeder. The rancher will have produced a little bit, a few more cattle, you know, it really sends it and you really need a good demand. So then the profits in the cattle feeding deal go up and so forth. And then here, the packer is sitting over here, then that all, once the numbers get a little bit large that the cattle feeder is producing. So a few more cattle come to market than what they normally do. So, you know, the packer cuts back on the price they had to pay for supply and he gets a bigger piece of the pie. So that's really the way it should work in free enterprise.

Paul Engler (37:08):

Something now is all messed up and packers are getting as much as 300, even in some instances over $300 a head on the way the USDA figures those numbers. And when I mentioned earlier, I did a tour of duty, you know, with IBP and we had a weekly P and L with the carcass deal. And thought on average, we'd make about $15 per head the same cattle, the same process and so forth. So now the Packer's making 300, so the system is screwed up and I could go on the rest of the day about why that has happened, but it's happened and something's gotta be done. Unfortunately, it's probably gonna require something that we've all always been very much against. And that's any governmental interference in our business. So now the suffering that takes place is the cattle feeder and then the rancher.

Shaye Koester (38:42):

So with that, with everything you've invested a lot into the future generation of entrepreneurs and the beef industry, why did you choose to do that?

Paul Engler (38:58):

Well, that's something very important. I guess I'm egotistical enough to say that I think it's a wonderful thing, you know, but to pay it back. You are made of money. You're successful but so what? What the hell are you going to do with the money? And I actually, I live pretty simple. I don't need to go out and blow a bunch of money. So we got money so I always said the best thing to do is to see that it gets back and that's what we like to think that we're doing here with the money that we set up here for endowments and having a similar situation at West Texas University. I was always fearful that when we made this program at the University of Nebraska that'd I'd get some of my friends and some of my not so friends say, "Engler, what the hell you made your money in Texas, not in Nebraska. Why don't you spend your money down here, instead of there?" I never did have that happen, but I was always afraid that would happen. And that would have been a very legitimate question.

Paul Engler (40:37):

And so that's one of the reasons we have gone ahead with this deal at West Texas, and we're committed there. We kick in a million dollars per year to the college of business and agriculture and perpetuity. You know, 80 years, and then it's good for another 80 years. Hopefully, the people running the show are good enough to keep that going.

Shaye Koester (41:11):

Absolutely. So what's been the most rewarding part for you when you look back on those investments.

Paul Engler (41:21):

Oh! Now don't laugh now, but that is a real simple answer just today is a good example. Absolutely.

Shaye Koester (41:29):

So what advice do you have for the next generation of entrepreneurs in the beef industry?

Paul Engler (41:36):

There's going to be a lot of tough spots as, you know, you got an environmental situation or things like that. I just hope that we have a leadership in these industries where the producer sector, cattle feeder and so on and so forth that can handle these adversities. People continue to desire and demand for the product and these other products beyond beef, you know, for example, and so forth, you know, what kind of a foothold was it in the business and what percentage of the markets, you know, are going to go into those products. And then the environmental deal, if the feedyard today just not properly managed, it's going to be a detriment to the community from the standpoint of the environmental deal. And so, so there's going to be challenges. There's no question about it. I just hope that we have leadership that is able to meet those challenges. I still think in the whole scheme of things that God created, the cattle to eat the grass and they produce a product. That's up to the industry, you know, to do that, right.

Shaye Koester (43:39):

Absolutely. Now thank you for your time. Is there anything else you would like to share with the listeners or anything else you would like to add?

Paul Engler (43:48):

Well, I think it gets back to actually what we have here is education, and I'm a strong believer and all kinds of education, you know, and they, and they are visited here today. You know, it's probably more, the more reassuring the whole record of the entrepreneurship program here at the university, you know, is really good. You still represent a very strong, very small minority, you know, in the whole scheme of things, but these things they latch on here and latch on there and I think the whole thing hopefully grows.

Shaye Koester (44:41):

That is awesome. And thank you for sharing everything with us today. I appreciate it a lot, and I know my listeners will too

Paul Engler (44:48):

Well. I wish you good luck. Thank you. Bless you. Yeah, you're biting off a very big chunk too.

Shaye Koester (44:58):

It's worth it.

Shaye Koester (44:59):

And that's a wrap on that one folks. I hope you enjoyed Paul's insight and story. As much as I did. I know he has changed the lives of many with the entrepreneurship programs he has started. And I guess it was just a dream for me to sit down and have a cup of coffee and visit with him one afternoon. But with that, please let me know what you think of the episode. Be sure to go follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and YouTube. I've got just about everything now. So with that, have a great day. Give me a rating, like share and comment. Let me know what you think and I'll catch you on the next one.

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