Social Media Influencing & the Ranching Lifestyle with Natalie Kovarik

 Shaye Koester (00:00):

Hey, Hey, it's Shaye Koester. And I'm your host for Casual Cattle Conversations, where we talk about all things related to ranching, through sharing the stories and practices of different ranchers in their operations.

Shaye Koester (00:18):

Alrighty folks, it's great to have you back and before we get to who will be on today's episode and you get you having the opportunity to meet them. We are going to thank today's sponsor.

Performance Beef (00:29):

This episode is brought to you by Performance Beef, easy-to-use cattle management software. Stop relying on pen and paper or complicated programs. Performance Beef is a comprehensive technology solution, integrating feed, financial and health information in one easy-to-use platform accessible from anywhere on your computer, smartphone or tablet Performance Beef makes it easy to update rations; record health data at the chute, in the pen or out at the pasture; generate real-time closeout reports or analyze trends in feed intake costs and performance. All in one place. It has helped more than 2,200 cattle producers like Natalie and Luke Kovarik simplify their cattle business search Performance Beef online to request a demo or follow Performance Beef on social media.

Shaye Koester (01:16):

Thank you Performance Beef for sponsoring today's episode. It was great to have Justin on the show, a few episodes back, and today we are very excited to visit with Natalie Kovarik. She is an influencer on Instagram for those of you who don't know her, but Natalie really advocates for the beef industry and the ranching lifestyle. She shares her honest experiences as a mother on the ranch and in the social media and influencing space. She offers a lot of advice on how to manage time, manage social media and it's really a great episode for anyone interested in upping their social media game or marketing, and just really learning on a little more on advocating for the ranching industry. With that, be sure to comment, like and share on this episode. Let me know what you're interested in. And when I say comment, do not be afraid to comment a question you have about the episode or something you learned. It really builds community and allows me to help you more and you to help other listeners as well. So with that, let's get on with the episode.

Shaye Koester (02:22):

So Just to get started, what is your background with ranching?

Natalie Kovarik (02:26):

I grew up on a ranch, so I'm a fourth generation rancher's daughter. So, I'm in Nebraska now, but I originally grew up in Southwest Montana. My family has a registered Herfeord operation there. It was a family operation. I still have two sisters that work on the ranch with my parents, but, um, yeah, so I grew up definitely immersed in it. I wasn't like a 4-H or FFA kid, but I guess I got the real experience of being on the ranch.

Shaye Koester (02:55):

Well, that's awesome to come from that type of background. So what is your operation like today that you are on? You just said you were in Nebraska.

Natalie Kovarik (03:03):

Yeah, so we are on my husband's operation in central Nebraska. He also kind of grew up in the ranching industry. It's definitely in rural Nebraska. So it's a very farming & ranching community. So through his mom's side they had a family ranch. We are actually on the little quarter that his dad's parents, um, he was raised on. So it is kind of confusing because through my husband's mom, he is like technically a fifth generation rancher, but, um, we are not on that operation. We're actually on, like I said, the little homestead that his dad grew up on and that was more just like his parents, his dad's parents, parents did it basically to survive like. That was their lifestyle. It wasn't like a production ag or anything. So our operation that my husband and I are on is kind of technically a first-generation.

Natalie Kovarik (03:59):

He came back from after graduate school and kind of started the cow herd up on his own a little bit with his dad, but both of his parents worked outside of agriculture. And so Luke kind of headed it all. So we have ranching roots, the both of us, but what we're running today is, um, a lot of hard work from, you know, in time that my husband put in. Um, and we are, I would say the heart of our operation. Um, I think most people listening are agriculture, so it's a cow/calf operation. Um, but we just started our, a small registered Angus herd as well. And then we also do backgrounding and my husband does AI at work as well, too.

Shaye Koester (04:35):

Well, awesome. That is a lot to keep you busy and good to see that you both have such strong roots in agriculture.

Natalie Kovarik (04:45):

I was just gonna say, I think anyone who lives, whether you're a farmer or rancher, I think you're busy, no matter how much you do you know, or how little compared to your neighbors. I still think it's a busy lifestyle for everyone.

Shaye Koester (04:56):

There's always something. So what is your role on your operation today?

Natalie Kovarik (05:02):

Um, so I wear the, I know it's kind of controversial in today's society or, um, you know, how, however you want to look at it, but I consider myself a ranch wife. I do work off of the ranch and I think maybe that's part of the reason why I could consider myself, a ranch wife instead of a rancher herself. Before I married my husband, I was working outside of agriculture full-time. And so I've just never, you know, I grew up on a ranch and I live on a ranch now, but I've always seen my occupation as pharmacy. I'm a pharmacist. So I've always seen it as pharmacy. Um, so it's kind of it's, I mean, I work a lot with my husband. I only work part-time now, so I'm on the ranch five days a week. I am usually out with him doing stuff, but it's just kind of an adjustment for me mentally to think of myself as a rancher and not a ranch wife, because like I said, just, um, before I married him, you know, my work's always been outside of agriculture, but I guess I, two days a week, I'm off the ranch and five days a week I am with him. Um, and again, even though I'm with him, I'm still not like the sole worker. He is. And so a lot of my role is more, supportive, but we'll do a lot of stuff together. He's definitely, I consider like, you know, the lead on the ranch.

Shaye Koester (06:26):

Well, I guess that's, I mean, that's a very common thing to have that off the ranch income in most operations, but the main reason I want to talk to you was your Instagram page. So would you talk a little bit about what made you want to start that and what you're doing there?

Natalie Kovarik (06:47):

It was kind of a serendipitous journey. It wasn't actually something I planned or intended to do. I originally, I, like most people, was on social media and Instagram specifically for a long time before I ever ventured into it as a business or something more besides just sharing for friends and family. A couple of years ago in 2017 after I had first moved to Nebraska, a good friend back from Montana and I had decided we wanted to start a ranch direct beef business. She was also marrieda rancher and was also ranching, um, or that's what they do for their occupation. And so it was just something we wanted to try. In order to do that, we decided we wanted to use the social media platform of Instagram to kind of, you know, build our audience, get to know our customers and that's how we were going to roll out our product.

Natalie Kovarik (07:36):

So my initial exposure to Instagram as a business was for a business I'm not currently doing. I stepped away from that at the beginning of this year and started my own page. So that's why, I guess I kind of say it wasn't something I intended to do because originally I had always just wanted to sell beef. And I actually remember, like when we set up the account and started our business, I remember being like, I don't really want to do influencing and brand work. I'm not interested in that. Let's just sell beef, you know, and keep it honed in on, you know, that product based business. Um, but it's, it's fun, you know, it's fun to share your story and get more personal and it's fun to advocate for agriculture. And, and it just a bunch of things that I learned about myself along the way, um, led me to, to decide, to start sharing on my own page under my, you know, my own name and more about our family. So, um, I do that, like you said, on my Instagram page, um, and I started kind of sharing personally on my own April of 2020. Um, and then we also ventured to YouTube and I, and I decided to start sharing there as well.

Shaye Koester (08:44):

Well, you've had a lot of growth between then and now. I mean, I know I'm a follower and you have tons of engagement and tons of followers on there. So that's exciting. So with the branding, how did you of overcome that whole, "Oh, I don't want to do it right away." "I don't want to be an influencer" and move into what you have right now.

Natalie Kovarik (09:02):

Yeah, Again, it was, um, just something that happened. So the company Stetson actually reached out to us when when I was still on ranch wives and said they kind of want to do a little feature on us, you know, motherhood on the ranch for their Mother's Day. That was kinda my first exposure to, I guess, like brand work or influencing or, you know, whatever you want to call it. And it was just so fun. It was fun writing up the blog and sharing our story and our view of ranching and motherhood with them. It was fun that it was on that platform that I knew it was going to reach people and connect with people. It was fun working with a photographer. I've always really been in kind of into fashion and styling. And even when I had my own personal Instagram, it was still kind of a curated feed of my, uh, like I guess personal images.

Natalie Kovarik (09:52):

Like I still really enjoyed, um, I don't consider myself a photographer at all, especially now that I work with actual legit photographers, but I always like still, I feel like I still had like, you know, nicer photos and I took the time to, you know, edit them well and stuff. So, um, I always always enjoyed that. Then I got my first kind of exposure of it more in a professional business way with Stetson. And it was kind of like, I just got that one little taste and it was just so fun. I wanted to just keep doing it. That's kind of the beautiful thing about Instagram. As you grow, more opportunities kind of present themselves. So just little things kept popping up after that initial campaign we did with Stetson and the ball kind of was like a snowball going down a hill, you know. It just kind of kept building and carried on its own.

Shaye Koester (10:39):

Well, that's exciting. So with that, you have to be on social media a lot throughout the day. It seems like. So how do you balance, you know, you have that off the ranch job with being a pharmacist. You have, I mean, I know you don't consider yourself a rancher and more of a ranch wife, but that still keeps you very busy. And plus you have this Instagram. So how do you try and balance that when you're outside?

Natalie Kovarik (11:04):

I think it is something that everyone just naturally finds on their own as they're doing it. I have definitely figured out the balance the longer I've been on the app and the longer I've shared. You know, in the beginning it was hard. To grow on Instagram, you have to be present. And so a lot of time went into the beginning phase and then as you grow, you can kind of start stepping back and sharing a little bit less. I also think things that weigh into it in the beginning, as you're sharing a lot to try and figure out, you know, what your audience wants from you and what they're connecting to. Then kind of along the way you figure out what they enjoy seeing. So that kind of helps balance because I have cut out sharing a lot of things that I don't think my audience is really interested in any more. When in the beginning, you know, I might've shared to see if they were, and so I think it's just a natural thing you figure out the longer you're on the app. I think it's a different balance for everyone. Like it's definitely not a one size fits all. When I consider a ballance, someone might consider chaotic and way too much. And, what I consider a ballance, someone might be doing way more than me, you know, and that's their balance of level. And so it's just a really personal thing that I think you figure out taking into account your surroundings. So I had to figure out a balance with what my husband was comfortable with. I had to figure out a balance with, you know, what allowed me to still to be a mother and what allowed me to actually help when I'm out working with my husband. Um, so I have figured out a little, you know, some tips and tricks.

Natalie Kovarik (12:28):

I do a lot of recording when we're out working together and then I won't post, you know, until like maybe an hour later when we're in the house. So I'll catch all those snippets live when we're out and then I'll throw them up on when we're back in, because I do overlay with like text and kind of try, and I don't really curate my stories, but I definitely do more than just like snap it and throw it up. So, to still be able to be like a actual help to him when we're out working, I can catch those,10-15 second clips and then instead of taking the time to then also load them and type over them or whatever it is, um, I don't do that immediately. I usually tend to do it like if, you know, we hop in the truck and we have some downtime, I'll throw it up then, or if we go back into the house or whatever it is. So just little things like that I figured out along the way that helped me figure out, you know, make it more tolerable to share so much, but not eat into my actual life.

Shaye Koester (13:20):

Yeah, well, that is great advice. And so just to clarify as an influencer, do you have companies that sponsor you to keep going, or are you doing it independently right now?

Natalie Kovarik (13:30):

Um, both. So I, I have worked, I mean last year 2020 was, um, like as far as business or monetary wise goes, it was kind of like my big year. It was the first year I worked with multiple people that I did multiple campaigns that were paid and got the price that I was actually asking for. And, a lot of times when you start out, you'll work for free product. I did a lot of that in like 2019 and, um, 2020 was kind of the year that it was more, I felt like an actual business. But I'm not running, you know, paid sponsorships or campaigns all the time. A lot of it is still just me sharing without that. But you kind of have to find a balance again. It goes back to that magical word, because if you're going to spend so much time on the app you kind of have to make it worth the time.

Natalie Kovarik (14:19):

And for us, that's a monetary business and so you have to take some of those sponsorships. Otherwise, you know, just incentive to devote that much of your life to it isn't there. But then again, you don't want it to feel like a business. And I want my Instagram to still feel very much like a community for people and there's still a lot I want to do that isn't money-based like advocating and sharing about ranching and our lifestyle, all of that. Um, you know, that comes from, you know, just, it's more my love for the industry than seeing it as a business.

Shaye Koester (14:52):

Well absolutely. So something that I've been following a little bit on there is your version of Suzy School, correct?

Natalie Kovarik (14:59):

Yeah. that's new!

Shaye Koester (15:03):

Yeah. So this episode it'll come out in May. So when, again are the dates for that?

Natalie Kovarik (15:09):

Yeah. End of March and it's a three-day event. You get in the night before, but the actual school is like three full days of learning. So it's a Friday, Saturday, Sunday at the end of March.

Shaye Koester (15:20):

So what kind of prompted you to start this? And can you explain a little bit about what it is?

Natalie Kovarik (15:25):

Yeah, of course. So Suzy is a, well, she is no longer but she's kind of a retired influencer. She was an influencer that like, I would consider one of the originals, like an OG that's been doing it, you know, for 10 years. She's been sharing online and, and providing money for her family that way for a really long time. So she was a very successful, successful influencer. I think as with anything, the originals, people who kind of paved the way get asked all the questions, you know, "how do you do this? How does it work? I want to do this. Like what, you know, help me", you know? I guess like her generation or, all the people kind of in her space when they started had the opportunity to kind of create. A lot of them created online resources.

Natalie Kovarik (16:10):

Um, a lot of them started doing the retreats kind of like Suzy, but the people who are doing it to start with are the ones that are going to teach the next people. And so last year I think she must've just been getting that question enough, you know, like, "Suzy, I want to do what you do. Um, how do I do it?" So she decided to start what she calls Suzy school. It is basically open to anyone. Um, I mean, not just influencers, but anyone who wants to monetize social media. So she has a lot of small businesses that are trying to monetize through Instagram and that's the platform she works through most. So she holds, um, they're basically like high intensive retreats. It's a small number for a short period of time, three days.

Natalie Kovarik (16:49):

You go and you learn basically how to monetize Instagram or social media in the way that you want to. So I actually attended in 2019, that was kind of an investment I put into to wanting to build my business online. So I attended and I left and never really thought much of it. Like, definitely didn't think I would be where I'm at now hosting one but I learned a lot from her. As you mentioned earlier, I had had some fast growth and have seen a lot of quick success in this last year. I credit a lot of that to Suszy and attending Suzy School. Um, and so I actually reached out to her and, and I guess part of it is, um, you know, you have classmates that you go with the other women at the retreat, you form like this friendship, this bond with them.

Natalie Kovarik (17:37):

And you're always conversing with them after you leave and bouncing ideas off of each other. A lot of them were from varying backgrounds. So I thought, how neat would it be to have, you know, network that I have with the Suzy Sisters, but have them be all women in agriculture so they really understood when I came to ask questions and, and came to them to get advice, or you know, it's almost like a little mastermind group when you leave. And so I thought, how neat would it be to have it actually be all women in agriculture? And so I actually reached out to Suzyand I said, "Suszy, you need to do this. You need to do a niched down retreat, you know, and I, and I would love to be kind of your Guinea pig. Let's try it with women in agriculture." Um, so my original idea was not for me to teach. It was Suzy to teach and I was going to be her assistant. I just wanted her to do it with women in ag and then through all of our conversations and kind of setting it up. Suzy said, "I really think you should do this on your own. I really think you know, that the women will be there for you. You know, they're not there for me that they're from your community. They know you, they relate to you. This is more about you than it is me." That was really scary for me to think about, you know, hosting on my own. Because like I said, I went into it with the mentality that I was just going to assist Suzy, but I thought about it and I thought, "She's right. You know, I can do this. I've learned a lot. I've built up my page and anything that, you know, I don't know everything Suzy does, but I think I know enough and have a lot to teach the women who want to learn from me."

Natalie Kovarik (19:01):

And so I took the leap and I hosted my own. Uh, I will be, um, hosting my own Suzy Achool -Natalie niched down retreat that's focused on women. And it's not necessarily women ag. I didn't want it to be just ranch wives and farm wives who applied I didn't want people to feel like they had to be like me to apply. So I wanted rural, I wanted to focus on, you know, small businesses and small towns and just kind of that people who believe in the Western industry and the lifestyle that we come from, which is rural America.

Natalie Kovarik (19:32):

And so, yeah, I had, um, last I looked when I, um, went to close it, there was 115 applicants and it's varying, I've gone through not all of them, but it's, it's a variety of Western influencers and small businesses and farm wives. It's just a really a variety of women, which exactly what I wanted, who believe in rural America and are coming from small towns and just have this passion for the lifestyle. And so I haven't even started into it, but it's already been super, super rewarding just to, to see the dreams and hopes that women from the community that I am so proud to belong to have. And I really can't wait to help those women bring all of their dreams to fruition.

Shaye Koester (20:14):

Well, that is super exciting and I can only imagine how great that will be. I'm excited for you to think about the community that can come from that and the spirit and energy with those types of applicants.

Natalie Kovarik (20:22):

Yeah. I got asked quite a bit if I was going to do like an online version of it and like you said, the energy and kind of the magic of being in the room with those women and going through it together is really neat. It's something you kind of understand before, but you've really understand once you've done it. And so, um, yeah, I'm excited because in, in retreat thing, it's, it's, um, really great when you get a lot of passionate women together. Like we get things done! (laughter) It's fun.

Shaye Koester (20:54):

Uh, so kind of switching gears a little bit, social media can be very draining. I mean, I know with my business it can be and I've talked to other small business owners who feel the same way. Some people feel like they just get so drained from pushing out so much of their lives and what they're trying to do on social media. What's your take on this and how do you handle that?

Natalie Kovarik (21:13):

So again, I, um, I think it's something you just, I think social media is all about pivoting. So if you start out, you know, handling your page and creating the same content that you originally went into your page with the whole exact time you're on it, I don't think you're going to be successful. I think it's all about pivoting, whether that means listening to your audience, whether that means listening to yourself, to your heart, to the family around you, who are saying like, "this is too much, so let's scale back." I mean, it's all about making little pivots. When I started my own page, I had goal numbers that I wanted to reach of followers in certain amounts of time. So I knew I really had to crank it out this first year about spending time on the app and creating a community and I knew that going into it and my husband knew that going into it too. He was thankfully very, very supportive. Um, it was kind of draining at the beginning, but like I said, I had those goals that I wanted to reach and then I just recently started taking one day off a weekend. So I'm taking Saturdays off of no social media. That was kind of my reward to myself. Once I hit a certain point where I felt like I had built the community I wanted to build, I kinda got to a place where I could work with some brands. Because if you're going to try and make money from social media, follower count is important. Brands ask for it all the time. They also ask for engagement all the time.

Natalie Kovarik (22:31):

I mean, that is how we get paid is proving that we have followers and engagement statistics that are going to convert for that brand. And so, um, you know, I didn't start my own page to not reach some of those goals. And so I knew I had to kind of hit it really hard but I've just recently kind of started taking time away to kind of prevent that fatigue and that drain, that makes you want to step away from the app or give up or not put as much effort into it. And so I just think it's about pivoting all along the way and making adjustments so that, you know, you don't you feel like you're losing yourself in the app along the way.

Shaye Koester (23:10):

Well, thanks for that. So what's been the most difficult part about building your brand on social media?

Natalie Kovarik (23:17):

Oh, I don't want to say it was easy for me for me, but I feel like I've been doing it before I jumped to my original page. Like I said, I had been on, you know, Ranch Wives sharing there, so I feel like maybe all of the hard things and the frustrating things and the things you know, that you learn at the beginning, I experienced all over there. And so by the time I got to my original page, I feel like I'd kind of found my groove with social media. I'd kind of known, like I said, I'd already gone to Suzy School. So I had known a lot of the behind the scenes tips and tricks and the analytics you're looking at and kind of all the business side of it. I had known what I'd wanted to share.

Natalie Kovarik (23:54):

I knew I'd want to focus more on advocacy and I wanted to focus more on our family. That was kind of figured out for me. So, uh, fortunately I feel like this year, I didn't have too many, too many hurdles for me. I think the hardest part has been finding out how I want to advocate for agriculture. At least for me and my personality, every time I do an advocacy post, I just get so nervous. I hit that button and I just like, I almost, I exit out of the app. You're not supposed to exit out of the app. You're not supposed to do that, but I do. It's not from just like my fear of the post going large enough where activists or people outside of agriculture who want to try and end animal industry are going to find it and I'm going to have a full on war in my comments. I mean, terrible things can happen to posts that go viral when their advocacy posts like that. But I also really worry about people within the industry. You know, I worry about how I'm wording things and about how I'm sharing things. Because it's just from my perspective, and it's just my voice and my view of how I see agriculture and our experience on our operation. No two families in agriculture are the same and no two operations in agriculture are the same. So I worry a lot about my voice speaking for other people when that's not my intention, but doing that, having a seat for multiple people in this industry and, and saying something that someone else doesn't agree with, or, you know, like I said, it's just my personal view. And so I worry a lot about that coming across wrong. And so I think maybe the hardest part for me this year has been finding that balance of how I want to advocate and I guess my comfort zone with advocating for agriculture,

Shaye Koester (25:37):

Well, that is a lot. And so with that, what's the most rewarding part of it.

Natalie Kovarik (25:42):

Um, things like this, you know, people who say they enjoy, who want to learn more, who want to hear more about my story. You know that tells me I'm doing a good job. It tells me all the effort I'm putting into it is worth it. You know? And one of my favorite things is when I get questions from people outside of agriculture on my page, because it shows that I'm reaching the people that we want to. I mean, I love, love, love community, creating a community with people that are in the industry who understand what I'm going through. You know, it's like a sisterhood or brotherhood, but it's also, you know, we can't just keep talking to each other. So if you're looking from the stand of advocacy, it's always really rewarding to me when I realize I've reached someone, you know, outside of it. But you know, the great, I mean, those are just a few things. There's the great of this app. I truly believe the great of this app outweighs the negative, you know, far.

Shaye Koester (26:32):

Well, that's a great perspective to have, and that kind of wraps up everything I wanted to talk to you about, unless you have any advice that you'd like to share for those who are kind of dreaming and learning how to share their own voice.

Natalie Kovarik (26:44):

Well, I feel like it's what everyone says, but just start. That's what I did and that's what everyone's done. They just started somewhere. It's easy to compare someone who's been in the game for, you know, I do it all the time with people who have been on the app for 5 or 10 years, I think that I'm behind. So it's easy to do, but we all started at zero or 100 or wherever it is, we all just started somewhere. And so it's something that's really calling on your heart I would never, ever recommend, you know, forcing your way onto the app because it is very much so a time investment, if you want to do it successfully. But if it's something that's like weighing on your heart and you've been thinking about it, I am a firm believer that our hearts never lead us wrong. So if it's been weighing on you and you want to do it, just start, I swear to you, you'll figure it out along the way.

Shaye Koester (27:28):

Awesome. Well, thank you very much for taking the time out of your day and sharing your story and all this advice. It's been amazing.

Natalie Kovarik (27:36):

Yeah, absolutely. It's fun. Anytime.

Shaye Koester (27:38):

Alrighty, folks, that's a wrap on that one. I hope you enjoyed hearing from Natalie. I know I did. It was a great conversation and great to meet her. Please be sure if you're interested in more content outside of the podcast to tune in for my lives there on the off Mondays of when I post episodes. I post episodes on the first and 15th of the month for now, and then I have live events on Facebook and Instagram. I also post regularly just to generate conversation about topics as well. So go check out my social media and leave a comment. Let me know what you like. If you're interested in being a greater part of this podcast and supporting me a little more, be sure to go check out those Patron or advertising options, or even if you want some merchandise that would be on my website, casualcattleconversations.podbean.com. and that will be on the left hand side. There should be some links there or on my Instagram page and Facebook page. There should be a link tree, which will take you to all the links you need. But with that, thank you and have a great day.

Performance Beef (28:37):

This episode is brought to you by Performance Beef, easy--to-use cattle management software. Stop relying on pen and paper or complicated programs. Performance Beef is a comprehensive technology solution, integrating feed, financial and health information in one easy-to-use platform accessible from anywhere on your computer, smartphone or tablet Performance Beef makes it easy to update rations; record health data at the chute, in the pen or out at the pasture; generate real-time closeout reports or analyze trends in feed intake costs and performance. All in one place. It has helped more than 2,200 cattle producers like Natalie and Luke Kovarik simplify their cattle business search Performance Beef online to request a demo or follow Performance Beef on social media.

 

Nutrition, Genetics & Reproduction with Rick Funston

 Shaye Koester (00:00):

Hey, Hey, it's Shaye Koester and I'm your host for Casual Cattle Conversations, where we talk about all things related to ranching, through sharing the stories and practices of different ranchers in their operations.

Shaye Koester (00:17):

Alrighty folks, thanks for tuning in again, to start things off, we're going to hear and thank today's sponsor. The Red Angus Association of America.

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Shaye Koester (01:13):

Alrighty, thank you to the Red Angus Association of America. And with that today, we are going to visit with Rick Funston. Now Rick comes from a strong ranching background in North Dakota, but he's currently in Nebraska where he helps different ranchers understand how to utilize nutrition for optimal reproduction performance. Now he has a lot of experience, background, and insight on this area and he shares some different action items that you can apply to do the same for your herd. I really enjoyed visiting with Rick and got a lot out of the conversation. Now, before we get on with the episode, remember that if you like something, make sure you comment on one of my social media posts, what you learned, that quote, um, any other questions you had that way you can really build up a discussion and community with other listeners and myself. You can do that on my Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter.

Shaye Koester (02:10):

And if you're interested in contributing to this podcast and ensuring that I can keep putting episodes out for you all, please go become a patron. Now that is on my website, casualcattleconversations.podbean.com. So with that on the sidebar, you'll be able to find all my links to patron merchandise, anything. Um, if you are also interested, if you're on my Instagram, if you hit my link tree in my bio, it's just that one link that's in the bio that will, there will also be a link to that program as well. There's also links to my merchandise and website as well. So with that, let's get on with the episode.

Shaye Koester (02:51):

Hey Rick,

Rick Funston (02:52):

Can you hear me?

Shaye Koester (02:53):

I can hear you

Shaye Koester (02:55):

So well, thank you for joining me today. I really appreciate it. And would you just get started with your background in the ranching industry?

Rick Funston (03:04):

Yeah, so Rick Funston, uh, interestingly I'm good friends with Shaye's dad and uncle used to rodeo with their uncle and from North Dakota grew up on a farm & ranch, which is North of Sterling, not far from where she's from, um, I had a few cows with my grandpa growing up so always farmed and ranched with my dad and my grandpa. And, uh, I became interested in it. I was the first one to go to college. I ended up going to NDSU for bachelor's and continued on to Montana State for a master's in animal science. I was an educator for awhile at, uh, Scobey, Montana. And then went back to school at Wyoming and did a PhD at the University of Wyoming and then a postdoc at Colorado State and biotechnology, I guess, a lot of work with embryos and embryo transfer and some more molecular things, and then went to Chadron State College and taught and coached the rodeo team.

Rick Funston (04:17):

And, uh, then went to Montana to Miles City and was the first off-campus beef specialist at Fort Keogh, but with Montana state. Then I had a couple of friends on faculty at Nebraska and they said, this position is open in North Platte. I said, I'm not interested and whatever 16 years later here I am. So I've got a small place out of town and, um, buy some heifers and breed them and been selling bred heifers. And then within the university, we have about 700 breeding females in the Gudmundson Sandhills lab up in the middle of the Sandhills and then feedlot down here at North Platte and I purchased some more heifer calves out of the Sandhills and do heifer development work and re-breeding first-calf heifers, which seems to be a challenge as well as the second calvers. But yeah, we're about to start calving. We had a great winter going and tell this week, Oh my gosh, we got 12, 14 inches of snow and it's supposed to be 25 below on Saturday, but there's hopefully light at the end of the tunnel. Later next week, it looks like it's going to get above freezing finally, so

Shaye Koester (05:40):

Well. So you have maintained a solid background on the production and hands-on side outside of the research you do, but when you're working in that position at North Platte, how closely do you work with ranchers?

Rick Funston (05:54):

Oh, very close. I go to a lot of bulls sales. I go to a lot of, uh, industry events and people call me directly. We have educators in not every County, but an educator responsible for every County and that's supposed to be the frontline. But I get a lot of direct calls from ranchers in Nebraska and a lot of other States toobecause you know we are fortunate to have a strong extension system and several faculty that are having an extension appointment. I don't know how many, we probably have seven or eight, but most States have one. And that covers all, all the disciplines. I'm reproduction. We have a nutritionist here. We have a feedlot specialist on campus. We have a couple in the panhandle out at Scottsbluff. So we have a lot of great resources that, um, a lot of other land grant universities don't have. So, doesn't take long to quickly to find someone. I get a lot of contacts over the internet that they search for something, and my name comes up, but hopefully it's all good.

Shaye Koester (07:12):

So what is it about reproduction that makes you so passionate about it? Or why did you decide to go down that route?

Rick Funston (07:22):

Well, it's the number one trait, um, for profitable production. The only time a beef female can possibly be profitable, that doesn't conceive is one that's never conceived. So there's a lot of yearlings, that are heifers that never see a bull and that can be a profitable enterprise. But if we get an animal pregnant, we have to do everything we can to get her pregnant in a timely manner every year. Oh, there's a webinar on beef.unl.edu on increasing production efficiency and not only the importance of pregnancy and having animals conceive, but when they conceive has a huge impact on profitability, on a ranch. That whole webinar discusses factors that influence that event of when they conceive. I'm not promoting necessarily calving in January, a lot of ranches have gone to later calving for essentially two reasons: labor and weather. We don't have a lot of facilities, um, to put animals in a case of inclement weather. So, you know, people move to later calving, we've done a lot of research at Gudmondson on time of calving and some of the consequences or unforeseen concerns. If we calve later and later, that calf independent of age is going to be lighter because nutrition is actually going against when that calf is growing a lot. So a lot of the later calving systems lend themselves to yearling systems. So those consequences have to be obviously discussed with your banker, because you're not going to have a cattle sale that fall like you normally would. So you got to have someone working with you if you're using the banker, which the most ranches are.

Rick Funston (09:56):

The other consequence. That is not unforeseen, but maybe a surprise because a lot of times when people shift calving date, they allow for a longer postpartum interval and they think everything will breed really well quickly. Well, they're breeding on a declining plain of nutrition, oftentimes like August, September to Kevin, what may or April. I was a bit surprised when we started doing the heifer development work on these different calving systems that at least initially those heifers in the later calving system that came from genetics that was reared in an earlier calving system, had a much lower pregnancy rate. Now over time it appears, it appears that, uh, they've gotten close to what March calvers are, but there's something to be said for adaptability. We talked about that somewhat from I know they did some studies back in the day with Miles City and Florida, where they exchanged genetics. And one way it worked one way didn't and they say, you can move cattle, whatever North to South, not South to North. And that may be not right either, but I don't think it's absolute, but there's definitely some adaption.

Rick Funston (11:21):

I worked with the rancher that moved from Billings actually, and moved to set a Hereford cows from the billings area and a set of Red Angus cows from the Lewistown area, which is much lusher environment. The Hereford cows bred fine and the Red Angus cows, not so much. So I haven't heard vinyl on, uh, on a preg check but I was working with them to help them to try to get those animals pregnant.

Shaye Koester (12:13):

Okay. So with your work, when you're working with different producers, what are some of the biggest mistakes you see them make when they're trying to improve their conception rates?

Rick Funston (12:25):

Well, yeah, good question. I get a lot of calls from veterinarians and producers after the preg check and it's, "we had a wreck, we had 15% open." Well that's not a wreck, but it might not be ideal. So you go down a list and, um, pre and post-breeding management. A lot of times we might do too much of a good thing, especially with our heifer calves, with $3 corn, we get them too fat. We get them, you know, cycling and bred in a confined system, but then they go to a post-breeding environment that won't sustain that level of gain. And if they're declining and gain, even though you may not see it there's metabolic signals that actually says older data says causes more embryonic loss. So post-breeding management, when we handle cattle, the nutrition, and those types of things is often overlooked.

Rick Funston (13:34):

And then we go down the list. "Oh, we'd done it the same for years and years and years." And so sometimes it ends up in the final question of "I'm assuming these are straight Angus cattle that have been bred Angus on Angus for generations." And most often the answer's yes. So not taking advantage of heterosis can cause these issues. Crossbreeding hybrid vigor is the most beneficial to lowly heritable traits, which reproduction and disease resistance are. So these crossbred animals have an inherently, a higher pregnancy rate and also less sickness. So there are a lot of things. There's some papers at our state of beef conference that covers a lot of these, um, considerations for the breeding season. But, you know, genetics is one that can't be overlooked along with, cow size, is milk production going up. Um, these are all things that steadily over time.

Rick Funston (14:48):

If we don't change the resources available reproduction is going to fail. I've got people telling me, well, genetics hasn't changed and I said, "well, it has in a feedyard." I mean, if you look at the EPDs from the USMARC data for yearling weight and,my gosh, that Angus cow, that was in the 1970s. I mean, there's a steady trajectory where it caught up with all the major seven breeds, including the Continentals. So we run 40 pair on a section, often times is a stocking rate used. That same 40 pair isn't the same 40 pair of 10, 20 years ago. So, over time, I guess we want performance out of our animals, but if we don't have the resources, we're going to have more open cows.

Shaye Koester (15:54):

Yeah, absolutely. And it's neat how you really talked and talked about how reproduction, nutrition and genetics, they're all tied together and impacting performance

Rick Funston (16:08):

Definitely, they all have to be considered together and how much can your resources withstand? And I don't think it's rained since July here. We did get this snow and how much moisture is it? I don't know, but there we weaned weaning weights and pregnancy rates are pretty good. We luckily had moisture going into the grazing season and that saved us quite a bit. Uh, up until this last week, we weren't looking like we were going to have any moisture, but a foot 14 inches of snow and more, more possibly coming. So, and then hopefully a warm up next week and I am not living in North Dakota for a reason (chuckles).

Shaye Koester (17:06):

Well, on the topic of, you know, a lack of moisture, what are some mistakes you see producers make when managing reproduction during drought times?

Rick Funston (17:19):

Um, not intervening soon enough, maybe. I've worked with a lot of ranches on trouble shooting reproduction here. Interestingly, some of the worst conception rates were in some real wet areas, which we had up in the centered and North central part of the state. So if we grow a lot of washy grass and nutrient demands, obviously are pretty high in some of these high-performance herds and they aren't being met and along with high growth and high milk, um, well look at it this way. You know, and your grandpa, and I don't know if your dad tells you, but you don't wean the heaviest calves on a wet year. And you don't necessarily have the best reproduction on a wet year. And I think the yearling gains and stuff kind of tell you what's going on and calf gains.

Rick Funston (18:23):

Back in 2012, we had a terrible drought. And, uh, if we didn't run out of grass, pregnancy rates and weaning weights were fine, pretty good, but some of the repercussions were seen after that. And we've done quite a bit of work along the, uh, area of fetal programming, looking at the effects of nutrition during gestation and how that impacts, uh, maybe not the female itself, that's losing weight, as long as she's on a positive trajectory from calving to breeding. She will probably breed fine, but we're seeing repercussions and postnatal growth and development of that steer calf and the heifer fertility. So some consequences of things short term that ended up not being realized until later on.

Shaye Koester (19:21):

Well, absolutely. And I think that's interesting from the research side to look at, you know, those impacts later on that we sometimes maybe don't see right away that sometimes get forgotten about or not thought of right away until it's too late.

Rick Funston (19:35):

And, and sometimes, you know, I don't know retained ownership or some vested interests, post weaning is probably more common than it was 10 years ago or whatever, but somebody knows where them cattle come from. I use an example of a feed yard over by Cozad that I gave a talk at for Dawson County Cattlemen, I think quite a few years ago now. And they're like, well, we see that we see calves from different regions, ranches, whatever, perform differently. And we think it's all genetics, but possibly it is not. Possibly it's management. So today that feed yard wants to know how that cow herds managed, because they know if they're run rough, they probably don't get the carcass weights and they have more sickness in those cattle and they're not worth as much to them if they don't perform. So, yeah.

Shaye Koester (20:39):

Yeah, absolutely. So going back to you, I mean, we've touched a little bit on mistakes producers make, but what are some of those mistakes you see made right after calving? When we're looking at getting that cow ready, she's taken care of a calf now, but she's going to have to breed up again in a few months. So what mistakes do you see there?

Rick Funston (21:00):

Well, obviously nutrition is pivotal and we tend to think about nutrition as supplementing protein. Um, but post calving yeah protein Is important. But due to an animal's intake, the percent protein in a roughage generally doesn't have to be that high. If they're fed too close to ad libitum or what, what they will eat. So energy, energy, energy, energy oftentimes is the one thing that is overlooked. And it is difficult, especially in a younger female to meet energy requirements on a hundred percent roughage. And we think sometimes that our higher protein hays are higher in energy, and they're not that much. So we need to make sure we're meeting energy requirements and oftentimes if we made protein, we can do it with, with about anything starch corn used to be the by, uh, distillers is pretty darn expensive lately, you know, corn, gluten feed. Um, there are some other energy sources that potentially, uh, wheat meds, depending on the region, even wheat and barley. Oats is not high in energy. So, uh, yeah, balanced diets, but just putting out something with protein in it. And then the other thing I think that becomes somewhat of an issue is when we purchase products that are low intake, some of the self-feds and things just don't provide much energy at all. So post calving, you know, you gotta meat protein, but you gotta understand that energy can be limiting

Shaye Koester (23:12):

Well. Awesome. Thank you very much for that. And I'm kind of going to switch gears here. So I did watch that webinar that you were talking about. I know you sent that to me. So with that, would you talk a little bit about the value in synchronization programs?

Rick Funston (23:29):

Yeah, we do not only research with animals within the university system, but with cooperators. And I think that's a huge benefit to our producers that we can leverage a lot of animals that we don't have to own. For example, we did a study with a ranch North of Sutherland. Last year, we bred 900 heifers. My gosh, we don't have those resources in the university. I mean, I breed a hundred, a hundred, a heifer calves every year here at North Platte, but 900 heifers looking at a variation in the synchronization protocol. So we're going to do another study, hopefully with them this spring. I don't know how many heifers we will breed, but at least four or 500. So that is a tool that we have to front load the calving season. And, you know, I don't know who said it first, but I repeated often. Half of the value of an AI program is the fact that those cattle are synchronized.

Rick Funston (24:34):

So one thing we've been doing, we AI some at the Gudmundson, but traditionally not much. This last couple of years, we've done more, but, uh, we, we synchronize with natural service and you can get a lot of the benefit and it doesn't have to be costly. So for us, you know, especially with your heifers, my gosh, there's no excuse not to synchronize, even if you're not going to AI. Um, because you set that animal up. So Bob Cushman and you saw it, uh, has a lot of data. 14,000 head or something shows that when an animal conceives its first time has a huge impact on its lifetime productivity and longevity. So I know you saw the slide on when an animal was born and how important that is to production of both the heifer and steer, but Bob Cushman looked at when they conceived the first time, uh, admittedly age, isn't a hundred percent correlated with when they will conceive there's a high correlation, but some of those younger animals breed early too.

Rick Funston (25:53):

But what we've done at Gudmundson for a number of years is synchronization with natural service where we turn the bulls in and then five days later give prostaglandin and had a guy from, uh, Oregon. My, uh, good friend that was on the Rex ranch years ago, wanting to know about breeding animals on small traps, on irrigated grass. And I said, do you ever consider synchronizing? And he says, well, this is what we used to do. We used to give him a shot and then turn our right heat's on them and AI, and I says, turn the bulls in. And five days later, give prostaglandin. And if you want to AI those that come and he'd find if not, just leave the bulls. And so the other tool and that's, I shouldn't say it, that system only works in cycling animals, but I've been told it works in a higher risk animals too.

Rick Funston (26:53):

And the only way I think that's possible is because if, if they don't have a CL they're not going to respond to prostaglandin. And right, the only way I think that I got a rancher North of town here between here and try-on says it's helped my two year olds pick back up and, and uh, the later calves, I see that don't make sense, but the only way I think it could is that some of those will respond. Um, some of them are going to have a cl. So you're likely going to have more animals cycling, even in a high-risk population, um, using that protocol. And if we look at the pheromone data, Bartonelli data in Miles City, where they looked at, uh, gomer bulls, um, uh, jump-starting animals, androgenized, cows, that potentially could be a mechanism that works, but a more sure-fire if you got late calvers, take that late set and manage them where a week before you can't get your hands on them and put a CIDr in them.

Rick Funston (28:05):

But a CIDr in. Seven days later, pull it. Give prostaglandin and I've got ranchers that will testify. They move cattle up two to three cycles. The most I've moved a cow up in one year was 56 days. So huge people say, Oh, I don't want to pay for a $10 or $12 CIDr. Well, what's a days weight of calf worth? You know, and we figure what two pounds per day of age. So if we moved them up, even a cycle, my gosh, that's 40 bucks return on, uh, I don't know what CIDr are worth today, but $10 investment or a little more and a shot of prostaglandin which isn't much. So yeah, very underutilized tool. At beefrepro.org you can find all of the, uh, all of the, uh, synchronization protocols that are recommended. There's a couple of new ones out there today that aren't on the sheets that there's some preliminary data on.

Rick Funston (29:08):

Um, don't know that they're better than the ones on the sheets, but with higher risk animals, potentially there's one out of Missouri that in Missouri has done a lot of the research on different sync protocols that potentially has some benefit, but I don't know if in animals that are cycling any better than the seven days CIDr. So simplicity, there's two sheets of protocols. If you are confused as heck, which one do I pick? For heifers, I like the longer term protocols. The MGA or the 14-day CIDr. I do not like the seven day or the five day on heifers. And there's quite a bit of data to support what I just said. So that's the end of this story. MGA is cheaper if you can get it in them, right. They got to eat it every day. If you risk that you can't, then the 14 day CIDr is the way to go. For anything, that's had a calf the seven day co-sync CIDr is, I mean, you look through all the data out there. It's as good as anything repeatedly.

Shaye Koester (30:23):

Well, that is awesome. And those are some amazing returns or that can just come from the change from putting a synchronization program into your herd. With that you also mentioned earlier about shortened breeding seasons. So would you expand a little bit on that and the impact on profitability for producers?

Rick Funston (30:44):

Yeah, and it, it depends on what the value of a later bred animal is. I got a neighbor based on our recommendations where my calves are, that's going to breed every heifer. You don't need them all, but he says, boy, you guys have had a real profit center in selling bred heifers. And I said, yeah, I'm mostly. But then I got a rancher where we read those 900 head last year. They're not going to turn a bull with them because the opens were worth just as much and they could market them earlier. You didn't have to use all their grass up. Um, so they could find out what was pregnant. They've done that last year was the first year they put bulls out as cleanups. And he says to me, he says, you're getting us 60% timed, AI pregnancy rate. My gosh, those stock or heifers are worth a lot of money and they're worth more early than when everything hits the markets.

Rick Funston (31:42):

So, yeah. Anyway, uh, uh, but generally I say have a long breeding season and a short calving season because potentially those pregnant animals, even pregnant later, that don't fit you, fit someone else. So let your vet find the ones that breed early. You keep those and the others are marketing opportunities. We've gotten down to a 45-day breeding season at Gudmundson for gosh, used to be 60. And then we went with synchronization and, uh, even without 45-day, we are in the nineties, most years, so you don't need a long, but if the environment is, um, questionable, sometimes the longer breeding season will improve pregnancy rates. But when you saw the slide, um, from Missouri that showed beyond 70 days to, gosh, what was it here up to 150 days? It didn't change pregnancy rates, something else was limiting, you know, the, the, uh, overall pregnancy rate, not, not breeding season.

Rick Funston (33:06):

I wish we could identify them bulls that were superstars, but sadly the best we got some breeding soundness examine it. Um, no way advocating not to use that. It's the best tool we got to sort out, you know, potentially bulls that aren't fertile at all. But it does. It does not tell us very much about how many calves that bowl will sire. I use a example of the largest ranches in the Sandhills. They did a study and they had the parentage there. They were all yearling bulls and they had to parent each back to know who the sires were and then a 50, what was it? 55 day breeding season. They had a bull that sired over 70 calves and they have five bulls that pass to breeding soundness exam that didn't sire a calf and they passed. They passed a breeding soundness exam.

Shaye Koester (34:10):

Well, that is very interesting. And yeah, I mean, those BSEs they'll tell you which ones are infertile, but it definitely doesn't tell you which ones are getting the job done. But like we said, still a good tool. With that you have answered all the questions I have and you have put out resources already and I'll make sure to include those links when this gets published. But is there anything else that you would like to share before we wrap up this interview?

Rick Funston (34:42):

Oh gosh. Um, invite you. If you're not using the beef.unl.edu website, it lists everybody's expertise. Use the resources you're paying for them, I guess is a big one. There's a lot of really good resources. I don't need to be on every ranch in Nebraska this year, but I have never, I have never went to a ranch and spent any time that I haven't made them money. So that's, if you're willing, willing to maybe change, maybe not change. Um, we get caught up in some of the crazy things with technology and shiny things. Get back to getting animals pregnant early. Um, I'm doing a webinar for England in a couple of weeks. And you know, the big issue over there is 35% of their producers don't breed their heifers unit they are two.

Shaye Koester (35:52):

Oh my gosh.

Rick Funston (35:53):

How much money is that lost?

Rick Funston (35:55):

I had a young lady come over. That works for the, I guess, some part of the government and a big rancher here she'd been consulting with. And they said, you need to go talk to Funston. Okay. I've got time for whatever. So anyway, now she wants me to do a webinar telling producers, I mean, who, who does that, but I've got a 50,000 acre ranch that I've been contacted through their lender that don't breed their heifers till they're two, there's an older paper Shaye that Bob Short wrote about those in great detail about calving as two or threes and what the economic impact of that is. So my gosh, crossbreeding is not forgotten, but there's a really good producer crossbred sale coming up Saturday here in North Platte. Um, my first PhD students had a really good sale after the storm last Saturday, all, not all, but mostly crossbred bulls so they can breed more cows, fertility, Bob Bellows.

Rick Funston (37:09):

Uh, you guys are all way before your time, but the three Bobs were the founders founders, but big instrumental scientists in the area of reproduction. Bob Bellows was Bob Stagmiller and Bob Short, all careers at Miles City, and they had a CGC herd. It was a composite three, three way across and Bellows used to tell me that if that bowl was going to fail a BSE, he would do it before we ever looked into microscope, meaning it was going to be something that culled him, whether it was structure, lameness, whatever, some, some physical defect, but semen quality was never, I mean, can't say never, but seldom ever did they cull a crossbred bull for that.

Shaye Koester (38:07):

Well, awesome. Thank you very much. And well, folks, that's a wrap on that one. Thank you for tuning in and thank you, Rick, for sharing your experience, advice, insight, it was amazing to visit with you, have you on the show and really share your passion with the rest of us. I know I got a lot out of the episode and I hope you listeners all did too. With that remember to comment your favorite parts on my social media. Let me know what you think. Let me know what topics do you want. You have been absolutely outstanding with that. Have a great day.

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