Maintaining Gut Health in Weaned and Backgrounded Calves

 Shaye Koester  0:08  

Hey, hey, it's Shaye Koester and I'm your host for The Casual Cattle Conversations Podcast where we foster innovation and enthusiasm in the ranching industry through sharing the stories and practices of different ranchers and beef industry leaders. Be sure to be a greater part of this podcast and become involved on my social media pages. Follow @cattleconvos on Instagram, Facebook and tik tok or Shaye Koester on LinkedIn to join the conversations around the challenges we face as ranchers and how we can overcome them. You can also find more information about this podcast, all my episodes and how to partner with me on this show, by going to my website, casualcattleconversations.com. With that, thanks for tuning in. And let's see who our guest is today. 

Alrighty, folks, thank you for tuning in to another episode. It is great to have you on here. Today, I am excited to share with you the story and knowledge of Dr. Shelby Roberts. Now, Shelby works for Alltech and comes from a cow calf background but is very passionate about gut health in cattle as well as nutrition. So today, Shelby is going to share with us what impacts gut health and how to keep a healthy gut in our calves after weaning, during backgrounding, what that looks like and what steps to take to ensure that you're doing all that you can do to keep your calves healthy from that standpoint. So with that, thanks for tuning in, and let's get on with the episode. 

Alrighty, so thanks for joining me, Shelby. And just to start off, do you want to talk about what your background is in the beef industry?

Shelby Roberts  2:03  

Sure. And Shaye, thanks for having me today. I'm really excited to get to talk to you today. So my background, I actually grew up on a cow calf ranch in West Texas, a little town called Gail. I grew up on the cow calf ranch and grew up showing steers as well. So really I have been in it in my whole life and I'm just really passionate about helping the beef industry improve. Then I went to grad school. I went to undergrad at West Texas A&M in Canyon and then had an internship at a feedlot and decided man, I really want to know more about this. So I decided to go to grad school at Oklahoma State. So I went and got a degree in ruminant nutrition, and then decided, hey, let's keep going and came back to West Texas a&m to get a PhD in agriculture, but with an emphasis in ruminant health and Immunology. So I kind of have a unique background of I have nutrition and some immune experience as well.

Shaye Koester  3:06  

Well, that's that's a pretty neat combination and always love to see a cow calf background on the show. 

Shelby Roberts  3:12  

Yeah. 

Shaye Koester  3:13  

So what do you do today then with all that experience and education that you possess.

Shelby Roberts  3:19  

So today, I actually work for Alltech. I am the beef technical service manager. So I kind of get to marry the best of both worlds, I get to look at research and see all the newest things coming out, but I also get to take that and interpret it and take it and apply it to cow calf guys. So I think it's a really unique channel where I get to use both my scientific background, but also the ability that I have to talk to cow calf guys as well. And it's what it's my favorite part of the job.

Well, I think it's always great to build that connection. That's kind of my favorite part of this, too. 

Yeah. 

Shaye Koester  3:56  

So when we're looking at Alltech and your role and your education, what I really wanted to kind of talk about today was gut health in calves. So could you talk about what a healthy gut is for a calf?

Shelby Roberts  4:11  

I think a healthy gut in a calf and when you think about it, it's really one of the most essential things that we need to establish that calf for a healthy future. Right? So the immune system, about 70% of the calf's immune system actually resides in the gut, which a lot of people wouldn't think about that. Because when we think of the gut, we typically just think about it as being a digestive organ, right? Like we don't think of it as having two goals. We don't think of it as having an ability to help the animal stay healthy. So I think it really is essential not only for good animal health, but it's also good for nutrition. If you want those animals performing and reaching their genetic potentials, they have to be able to have a healthy gut and absorb those nutrients that you're giving them. So I think to me, it's just essential for a healthy calf.

Shaye Koester  5:01  

So then, does that healthy gut come from, you know, the feeds that are there? Or where does that healthy gut come from? I mean, part of its natural, but what helps develop a healthy gut.

Shelby Roberts  5:14  

So a lot of it is having the gut microbial populations, which is a growing topic within the industry and also in human health as well. It's talking about those gut microbial populations, making sure that we are controlling those pathogenic bacteria, right, because that's when it gets unhealthy is when we have an overpopulation of E. coli or salmonella or something that is attaching to the wall and causing damage. So one aspect of a healthy gut is making sure we have the right microbial populations that are diverse, that are healthy, and we have minimal pathogenic bacteria, but also part of it is are we feeding that animal correctly? We want to make sure that we're not feeding things that are causing damage to the gut wall. So, it's a combination of effects really.

How does a healthy gut impact a calf's overall performance as it continues through its lifecycle?

Oh, thanks, Shaye, I think it's a really important thing to consider how a healthy gut is gonna impact a calf's overall performance, right? Because we know that the number one cause of calf sickness and maybe morbidity is scours, right? So that's a gut health issue. So when those animals start off and they get sick, that makes it harder for those animals to recover and have the same performance as those calves that stayed healthy. So I think it's really important that we look at how we establish a healthy gut, so those animals can make it through the system and maintain that performance throughout the system. Because I mean, as an industry, we're getting our genetics where we have really spectacular cattle, right? We're getting better performances, better conversions and we want we want to make sure we're giving those animals enough true nutrients but also, are we making sure that they're healthy enough so that they can actually absorb and utilize those nutrients so that can reach that genetic potential. And I think a cornerstone to that is making sure that those animals have a healthy gut from when they're a calf all the way through the system.

Shaye Koester  7:27  

So when you look at how gut health impacts of beef animal over its total life, where does that start?

Shelby Roberts  7:37  

In my opinion, it starts at cow calf, because I think the cow calf guys are the gatekeepers to health and longevity of not only their cows, but also those calves, right? So it starts as soon as that calf hits the ground, or maybe even before that, when we're feeding the mama cow. Are we making sure she is having the right enough energy for immune responses, right? So that colostrum quality is really important to a newborn calf. Well, if we're not feeding the mama cow enough, or she doesn't have enough energy for antibody production, then she's gonna have lower quality colostrum, which is gonna lead to maybe a less healthy calf. So I think it starts back at the cow calf guy. And that's really encouraging because they have the ability to improve health for that animal on the long run, right? Because the number one cause of calf sickness is scours. Right? And scours is essentially a gut health problem, those animals aren't able to absorb nutrients, and it's just leaving the backside. So if we can improve gut health in those calves early, we're going to improve their performance throughout their lifetime, because it's really hard to get over a bad start, right? So if those calves are already handicapped at the starting line, right, so those calves that were healthier are going and they're performing, but those calves that got sick, have a handicap and have further to come. So the likely not never recover that loss performance they had as a calf.

Shaye Koester  9:08  

Alright, well, awesome. Thank you for that explanation. So we've talked about gut health. And you know how it starts with that cow calf segment, or even making sure that that bred cow is being fed, right, and is up to the nutritional requirements that she needs to support this calf. But as we move past cow calf, and we get into weaning, what are the main points producers need to understand about gut health as it relates to the backgrounding industry?

Shelby Roberts  9:37  

So I think this is a really another important part where producers can have an impact. So we know that stressors are part of our system, right? Because we're so segmented, we know that there going to be periods of where the animal experiences stress. So I think some of the main impacts we can have in gut health is recognizing where those periods are and preparing those animals for those periods of stress. So gut health challenges occur when those animals are stressed, because stress decreases the immune response. So if they have gut health challenges, it's going to be harder to respond because they have depressed immunity. And so it's really important that we make sure those animals are prepared for those stressors along the way. So making sure we slowly introduced those calves to grain if we're feeding them grain, if you eat too much grain too fast, we're going to cause massive problems within the gut not only in the rumen, but you'll have some challenges in the gut as well. Slowly commingling, so we minimize the pathogenic challenge that those animals are having. And then maybe feeding something like a moss product that helps improve or promote gut health before those animals actually enter that that period of stress. I think it's really about just, if we want to have a healthier cow herd that's going to enter the field healthier, we need to build a resilient herd that can challenge and can handle those stressors, because we know where they are. And we know the periods of when we can kind of have a tipping point and help them be healthier going into those challenges.

Shaye Koester  11:19  

So would you explain a little bit more I know, I got this background in my nutrition classes and just a little bit growing up. But would you expand a little more on why you can't just drastically switch calves from you know, say, milk and grass or milk and hay straight to grain? Why is it important that that's a slow transition.

Shelby Roberts  11:38  

It's really important for a slow transition, because that's when so we're talking about the microbial population in the gut, right? Well, the rumen also has a bug population or micro bacteria that are in that rumen. So what happens is when you you switch those animals quickly from grass, or from grass or milk to a starch or corn based diet, then those bugs aren't prepared for that switch in feed stuff, right? So each bugs have specific feedstuffs that they use. So you'll have bugs that are specifically for fiber digestion and bugs that are specific to corn digestion. Well, sometimes what happens is when we we switch those animals quickly, those starch bacteria, they overpopulate and then we get acidosis which is not good for those calves. So it's really just allowing those microbial populations to slowly adjust to the feedstuff that they're being given. 

Shaye Koester  12:42  

Okay, awesome. Thank you for that explanation. Now, as we look at mistakes producers make so these listeners can maybe look at their management practices and see if they need to change anything. What would you say? Are some of the these management mistakes that would be made during the pre-weaning phase as they relate gut health? 

Shelby Roberts  13:03  

Yes, so I think that mistakes are hard to judge because you're going to have a difference between producers and the ability that they have, depending on their facilities or where they are with their weather. So I think it's really hard to say specific ones, because each producer is going to be different. But I think one is we are moving cattle too quickly through the system, right? So we're weaning them and maybe sending them directly to a marketing. And so I think that could be really hard for calves. I think we're not preparing those calves for the weaning period. So right, so say we have calves that have been raised on a pasture, they only know how to drink from a water tank, and they only know how to either drink milk or eat grass from Mama, I think one thing and then one of the problems we have is when we remove those calves, and then directly move them to a pen setting like that. The problem with that is those calves don't know how to, one eat from a feeder or eat anything other than hay. Then, we're also asking them to learn how to use a feeder right on top of the stress of Hey, where's my mom, go, I need to find her. So I think one thing that producers can do if they have the ability and facilities is to slowly introduce those calves with their mother to the places where they're going to be weaned, right. So say you have a lot that you know you're going to background and maybe open the gate if you have the ability for about a two to three days before you wean those calves. So they're familiar with the areas and that's less of a shock for those calves when they get removed from mom and get moved to to a weaning facility. 

Shaye Koester  14:42  

Well awesome and thank you for that insight. So what about mistakes made during the backgrounding period?

Shelby Roberts  14:51  

Yes, so again, they would be pretty similar to we pre-weaning ones, but one could be commingling calves too quickly or too too many of them from different sources. That could be really hard. Maybe if you if you are grouping cattles from various sources, I would suggest maybe keeping those groups separate for a couple weeks, make sure they're healthy and then take bringing those groups together. I would say that introducing those animals to starch diets to quickly is also a very is a major thing. And then I think that we should also be looking at maybe some gut health management, like a lot of times we're not focusing on nutrition or how that is. And I think that's something where, as an industry, we could maybe improve.

Shaye Koester  15:40  

Okay, so we've talked about, you know, what good gut health is, where it starts and some mistakes that could be made. But where can producers go for help in these areas or to fix some of these mistakes?

Shelby Roberts  15:55  

Yes, so I think part of it is just finding someone who someone like say, you have an Alltech rep in your area, finding them and we can look into and evaluate your production system and see where we can implement some changes that would maybe benefit your animals. I think looking at online resources is another option. There are a lot of online resources where you can look at better ways to manage cattle or slowly move those animals through the system and Alltech has a lot of resources on their website as well that can be useful. So Alltech, we are a feed ingredient company. But we also try and focus on how we can help the producers better themselves and find a better way to feed. We also have some analytical services that that producers can take advantage of as well.

Shaye Koester  16:45  

Awesome. So is there anything else you'd really like to share today, whether that regards to your story, or the Alltech story, or just gut health in general?

Shelby Roberts  16:55  

Yeah, I think that I would just like to emphasize that I think that if we're going to produce a healthy gut or a healthy calf, it really is looking at the beef system as a whole. So how are we feeding those animals so that they have a better health effect? And then how are we managing these animals so that we're bettering them for the finishing period, right, because we all want to have a healthy beef system. So if we can start early and see how we can affect overall beef performance, I think that's a really essential thing to work on as an industry and not as individual segments. 

Well, thank you very much for hopping on today. I appreciate that. 

Thank you for having me, Shaye. I'm really glad I got to talk with you.

Shaye Koester  17:38  

And that's a wrap on that one. Thanks for tuning in for this episode. Please be sure to go check out that Alltech website and see what they have to offer and how they can help your operation as well as go to my website, casualcattleconversations.com., to find all my episodes, and sign up for my newsletter. I hope to see your name come into that subscribe box so you never have to miss another episode and you can get a reminder of my blogs and episode updates and look back into the past about episodes that I did about a year ago. But with that, thanks for tuning in, and I hope to catch you on the next one.

Resources: https://www.alltech.com/animal-nutrition/beef-cattle-health-and-nutrition

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Regenerative Ranching: Why is this the Future and How to Get Started

{Intro Music}.

Shaye Koester  0:08  

Hey, hey it's Shaye Koester and I'm your host for the Casual Cattle Conversations podcast where we foster innovation and enthusiasm in the ranching industry through sharing the stories and practices of different ranchers and beef industry leaders. Be sure to be a greater part of this podcast and become involved on my social media pages. Follow cattleconvos on Instagram, Facebook and tik tok or Shaye Koester on LinkedIn to join the conversations around the challenges we face as ranchers and how we can overcome them. You can also find more information about this podcast, all my episodes and how to partner with me on this show, by going to my website, casualcattleconversations.com. With that, thanks for tuning in, and let's see who our guests is today. 

Red Angus Association of America  1:09  

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Shaye Koester  1:39  

Alrighty folks, thank you for tuning in again today. It's great to have you on here again. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. Today we are going to be discussing regenerative ranching. So I brought on two experts from the Noble Research Institute in Oklahoma. Today, visiting with me on the show is Steven Rhines, and Hugh Aljoe. These two individuals truly possess the background, knowledge and experience to explain what regenerative ranching is and why it's important to your operation, whether that is that relates to profitability, the ability to pass your land down to the next generation, or really just looking at your soil health and quality right now. This is a topic that I truly believe is important and we always need to continue improving our stewardship. We are already great stewards of the land, but we can always continue to improve. I think these two individuals do a tremendous job of explaining the topic of regenerative agriculture and providing some tips and advice on what practices you can look at maybe implementing now and how they will impact your operation. So with that, let's get on with the episode. 

Steve Rhines  2:01  

Hi Shaye, how are you? 

Shaye Koester  3:11  

Oh, I can't complain. I'm doing pretty good. 

Steve Rhines  3:14  

It's good to see you again. 

Shaye Koester  3:15  

Yeah, it's been a couple years. 

Hi, Hugh. Thanks for hopping on. I'm Shaye. It's nice to meet you. I appreciate you joining me for this. 

Hugh Aljoe  3:24  

Oh, you bet. Glad to do it. Glad to do it. 

Shaye Koester  3:28  

Well, with that would one of you or both of you please provide a brief background on the history of Noble Research Institute.

Steve Rhines  3:38  

I'd be happy to do that. Noble Research Institute is 75 years old this year. We were formed in 1945 by an oilman philanthropist by the name of Lloyd Noble. He had grown up in this part of the country, and he had seen the consequences of manmade disaster. So we mined the earth pretty extensively, using cotton, as as a monoculture with doing very little to put back into the land. And the idea was land was so cheap. And honestly, it probably wasn't a regular practice at the time, you just took what you needed. And Ardmore the town that we're located in was one of the largest cotton-producing centers in the world for a short period of time. Probably what would happen is the combination of weather will so we're at the tail end of the dustbowl, at this time, and the kind of combination of how we manage the land resulted in a lot of degradative and abandoned land. So people would just move on to something because land was so cheap, and it was really easy for them to stake. About 25 miles from here. They discovered one of the largest domestic findings of oil, and Mr. Noble was a part of that and so he gained his wealth not by inheriting it, but actually working for it and creating two companies by the name of Noble Energy, and Noble Corp. and recently noble energy was just acquired by Chevron, which is one of his legacy companies. But when he started the Samuel Roberts Noble Foundation, which was named after his father, originally, he set it up for the sole purpose of working with farmers and ranchers to build up the soil. And so they started with doing very simple things like a soil test, to give you the information on what to add back after a growing season, and after harvest, and so, we've progressed on for 75 years, we've done a variety of different things in between. We have always worked with farmers and ranchers, we have always conducted research in one form or another. And we've always effectively tried to work and educate producers on mass, but we've usually done it in a much smaller footprint like Southern Oklahoma and North Texas. In 2019, I took over this position after being here about 18 years. And so we began having a conversation with the board, having a conversation internally, looking at what we should be doing. And what we decided to do is transition into regenerative ranching, which would focus on what Mr. Noble asked us to do when he started us. It also the idea that we should be a national organization and not limited in a geographic footprint. So this board of ours, which still represents probably three quarters, either direct descendants or their spouses have been incredibly engaged throughout this process are committed to following the founders direction. And what we've we've done is, is begin to transition into regenerative ranching.

Shaye Koester  6:47  

Well, that is awesome. And thank you for offering that history. So now on a more personal scale, would each of you offer insight on what your backgrounds' in agriculture are?

Hugh Aljoe  7:01  

All right. Well, my background is, ya know, I grew up in West Texas on a family farm, I went to A&M and got a couple of degrees there and was hired right out of school to work for an international businessman running a cattle operation in East Texas. I did that for 10 years. We did you know a lot of say intensive rotational grazing, tried to try to be as progressive as we could with you know, with the land as well as trying to try to run as many cattle as you could just because the businessman, that was one of his objectives. So you know, we were able to grow the operation to about 1400 cows. From there, I was hired here as a pasture range consultant 25 years ago, been here ever since. I'm primarily working with people on pasture and range issues. In particular, grazing management has been kind of my forte. The last few years, I've been the director of the producer relations, which is our consulting efforts as well as overseeing the range operations here at Noble. 

Shaye Koester  8:10  

Well, awesome, thank you. How about you, Steve,

Steve Rhines  8:13  

Not quite as extensive. I grew up on a very small cow-calf operation. By small I mean, probably a dozen mama cows. My grandfather had upwards of the high 80s. The challenge was, I didn't really care for the state of Oklahoma or cattle when I was a kid and I thought a lot of good opportunities go. I saw myself being in a city and being an engineer. And, that's what I chased in school. So I went to school to become a mechanical engineer and work in the aerospace industry, went on to law school, and then found myself in Ardmore, Oklahoma. So as fate would have it, it's not my choice. It was somebody else's choice and we wound up here and fell in love again with the state. I couldn't be happier to be involved with farming and ranching and cattle production. So it was an underlying calling, which I just didn't appreciate for the better part of my life.

Shaye Koester  9:11  

Well, I'm glad you had the chance to come back and live that out then. So with that regenerative ag is it's a buzzword and there's a lot that can fall into it. So how would you describe regenerative agriculture within the ranching space?

Hugh Aljoe  9:31  

Well you know if we look at regenerative ranching, which is the term that we've coined because our focus is going to be around grazing lands, this would be the process of restoring degraded grazing lands using practices based on ecological principles. And what we really want to be able to do is take some of the practices that we've known to be part of what we'd consider good stewardship and apply them more intentionally in order to focus on restoring you know, the ecological process. Particularly the water cycle, the mineral cycle, energy cycle as well as community dynamics, just being sure that we're helping Mother Nature do what she does really well. So what do some of these practices look like, you know, surprisingly to some people is that they look a whole lot like what we're doing when we're trying to apply good, you know, good land stewardship to begin with, we're actually planning for rest and recovery of our pasture land or grasses to grow up before they're actually grazed. Providing the recovery that the plants need, so that we get more photosynthetic activity and, as a result get more biological activity below the surface. Because as the roots grow, so do the associations with the organisms in the soil, in able to be no-till some of the cover crops that we're looking at as diverse mixtures, planting into areas that would have been cropland that have been grazed year after year, trying to minimize the need, reduce drastically the need for things like fertilizer and pesticide, and what we're seeing is we can increase our stock density and grazing affects, you know, a lot of those things we consider problems sort of disappear. They're taking care of them as we're going through our proper management. Those are some examples. Anything else you'd like to add?

Steve Rhines  11:27  

No. I think simply, one of the things that we've looked at is making soil a partner in our operation, I think a lot of times, we just use it to either hold the animals up, or serve as a medium for plants to grow. But it's actually thinking a little bit about how we manage that as the entire system as he talked about. So I've got nothing further to add.

Shaye Koester  11:47  

So when we look at ranching on the business side, what are the main benefits there that ranchers see from adopting some of these practices,

Hugh Aljoe  11:57  

The main benefit that producers have when they begin adopting these practices, is that one, they have reduced the need for some of the inputs that they routinely apply such as chemicals and fertilizer. They also find that, that they begin to work with Mother Nature. You are actually working and using whatever is provided grazing for us, in many instances, trampling some of the materials in order to actually feed organisms within the soil, things that that most people haven't up to this point really considered animals that we need to be feeding. You know, and those organisms within the soil, really begin to add the biology and add to the biology, improving those ecosystem processes that we spoke of early on. I think that's the biggest benefit too is that another benefit is that you also because you're not putting these inputs, you're seeing an extreme reduction in some of the costs that they've used to support their operations. And they're not losing very much of the production, in most cases, whatever they might have seen early on is recovered within a very short period of time.

Shaye Koester  13:04  

Well, thank you for sharing that. Steve, do you have anything else to add?

Steve Rhines  13:09  

I think one of the interesting things is a lot of the pastures look a little different than what they might otherwise look like. In this part of the country look at monoculture. Bermuda grass is our primary warm-season grass, and tend to what you see here is a little bit of a different mix as we actually worked to incorporate forbs legumes into the pasture. And so and my father is one of them. He'll talk about the weediness and how is he going to manage the weeds and what you see in this managed grazing setup, is you intensely graze smaller paddocks and you actually suppress a lot of the weed problems, because the animals find them into their diet, and so they aren't selective anymore, which is exactly the way I eat at a buffet. I'm not allowed to do that anymore. I'm forced in one capacity or another to graze everything equally and as a consequence, a lot of the activities that we've otherwise known becomes unnecessary as Hugh was mentioning.

Shaye Koester  14:08  

Okay, so overall, when we're talking ROI, would you say it's there for these practices?

Hugh Aljoe  14:15  

Most definitely, I mean, that's, that's what were some of the questions is, what's the cost on the infrastructure, and really refers to make good use of what you already have. That's where we need to start when most people should start to buy themselves just a little bit of time understanding and trying to learn what regenerative ranching is about. Understand the ecosystem processes as well as the soil health principles. What are we really trying to use and once you get a little practice at applying grazing management, maybe using cover crops to some degree, you really begin to get a feel for what you're trying to accomplish. At that point, then you can come in with a plan in order to phase in what you need to, so it's not as if it's an, what I would call them,  extreme inconvenience or financial burden in order to get started. 

Shaye Koester  15:08  

Go ahead, Steve,

Steve Rhines  15:09  

I will add the idea that that that is really one of the focal points of our research at the Noble Research Institute is to begin to look at these economic issues. We have roughly 14,000 acres worth of land that's, that's located in the southernmost part of Oklahoma. That's only one geographic reference. It's got a lot of different soil types, it's got a lot of different production value. But the idea is what we need to begin to do is across a larger footprint, do this research to begin to answer a lot of the questions that you just posed. There are different mechanisms. Some people are going to go all in, and that's going to have a certain perhaps infrastructure valuation that they need to be able to put in whether it's water, or portable water, what are those different options? That's what noble needs to be able to do. Historically, we've done this in conventional agriculture is we take a little bit of that risk away from the producer by doing some of that research and then demonstrating on our own lands, we're going to continue to do that as we go forward in this direction.

Shaye Koester  16:12  

Awesome. Well, so Hugh mentioned, you know, producers need to kind of do some research and figure out, you know, what might work best for their operation and gain a better understanding of what regenerative ranching really is? Where can they go for this information, and these contact points to make sure they're getting the right information?

Hugh Aljoe  16:32  

Well, as we look, look out there, here at Noble what we're looking at is trying to find people that have been in the regenerative ranching circles and learning from them to begin with. Then also in a very short period of time, we're hoping to be able to transfer a lot of that information through our own internet, our own website, and our own educational venues. There are entities such as Understanding Ag, the savory and Holistic Management organizations, Ranching for Profit and so these are some of the leaders within the regenerative ranching community that we're gleaning from, and we're happy to be learning from them as well.

Shaye Koester  17:10  

Well, thank you for sharing that. So when we look at producers, as they start to implement these practices, as you've worked with producers, or seen some of their operations, what are some of the challenges they may initially face.

Hugh Aljoe  17:28  

One of the big challenges is making sure that they have a good partner to guide them through, you know, the steps that are going to be necessary in order to have early success, We want to make sure that people have the opportunity to have early wins and if you're partnering with the right people, it makes it really easy. But you know, we want to be able to serve as guides, to those entities and where we've had people that have had the success, that's where they come back. So it's been the most rewarding for me is where to get started, how to start using the resources that they already have. It doesn't mean that for most people, if you see it every day, he may not understand or value what you really have. And when you've got somebody on the outside coming in, and making suggestions, then they have the buy in order to take it and run it. Rather thoughts through us, we provide a little bit of critique and do they implement their, their thoughts and our suggestions or recommendations.

Shaye Koester  18:26  

Thank you. 

Steve Rhines  18:27  

I think another part of that, too, is as that as this grows, it's going to be critically important and it's an extension of what Hugh was mentioning just then it's going to be important to connect each Farmer and Rancher to a like community. We know farmers and ranchers. They're social people. They like to engage, whether it's over at the coffee shop or the donut shop, or if it's a church, you'd like to share what you're doing, you'd like to get that other idea, maybe it's just looking across the fence. But we think that that's a critical piece of this as we go forward is to be able to put these communities together and they can't be we know for a fact that they cannot stretch over large geographies, because of the differences in operations, the difference in soil, the difference in the climate. So the challenge becomes is building these networks close to home so you can relate to your neighbor and what they're going through and see it in your own operation.

Shaye Koester  19:28  

Well, absolutely, you know, it is very valuable to have those people who are close to you kind of seeing some things, seeing some of the things but also having an outside look at your own place too. What would you say the future of ranching looks like then with these regenerative practices?

Steve Rhines  19:49  

Well, we hope our goal is we get a new toolkit for where we're going to go I mean, we know for a fact. So before the call started you and I talked a little bit about working with Dr. Tom field at the University of Nebraska. He was an integral part of our discussions as we strategically planned and where should Noble fit and how does it relate to its history. One of the projects he asked for, that we asked him to do is to look into what's gonna compromise the viability of ranching in the United States as we look into the future. And he really came up with three points, and they're not magic to them. They're just once you hear them, you're like, yeah, I get that. And that's basically, soil productivity in the face of climate variability. The nation's or the producers level of debt, it's at an all-time high, it stretches across all agricultural sectors, it's not limited to ranching it, it is unbelievable. I believe it was in 2015 when we began to exceed $400 billion and it's only grown since 2015. And then the last, this lack of a pipeline, into the future of new people coming into ranching, coming into agriculture, to support this heritage industry for the United States. So if you begin to look at those three areas, any one of them is completely overwhelming, all three of them together is amazing. And so what our role is, is to begin to figure out, how is it that we can connect those dots begin to come up with a set of tools to manage the climate variability and soil productivity, to work on the economics of any operations to ensure that someone who wants to stay on the land can. But there's a second story to that, if I only make enough to get by year to year, what's the first thing I go after, and that's long-term thinking. So we know regenerative ranching, regenerative agriculture requires a long time, a long thought process, a long term planning process, we can't have operations live month to month, year to year, because they can't do that long term planning. And then that last piece really looks at that next generation. And it's the generation that's currently in university, it's also probably that next generation that that sets behind where you are in your own progress. And, and that is a generation that may have a connection to the land, but they also need to be thinking about ranching, or agriculture in a new light. And so as we see these new, and I hate to call them trends, because I think they're starting to eclipse trends, but localized food, knowing where my food comes from being comfortable with the idea that I not only know where it was raised but maybe where it was processed. And so as we get into those ideas, can we build an agricultural system behind that to support and help alleviate these three obstacles to the future of ranching viability?

Shaye Koester  23:02  

Well, that was amazing to hear. And thank you for sharing that there was so much I value in that statement, especially when you do look at the long-term picture. And yes, making sure that we as producers are doing everything we can when we get to have a fully traceable product within the United States. So with that, you two have done a very good job answering all the questions I had, do you have anything else you would like to add? Whether that's about regenerative ranching, ranching in general or Noble?

Steve Rhines  23:35  

I would just say that, and Hugh touched on it earlier. We don't pretend to believe that we're the only ones in this space. Just like agriculture, and just like I would, for the most part, I would say the nonprofit world that that Noble belongs to. It's an unbelievably generous space. And so we've worked really closely with Understanding Ag, Dr. Alan Williams, Gabe Brown, Doug Peterson, Shane, and a lot of those folks have poured into the Noble Research Institute and its employees that to help bring us along. We're also working with savory we're also working with Ranching for Profit. These people have really been the pioneers and in this space, and so we believe that we can complement them. There's a lot of things that Noble can do. A lot of the questions you raised are critical questions to the future of regenerative ranching. And that's the economics. That's the practices built on principles. And then mostly it's farmer and rancher education. We know for a fact that it's going to be a bit of a challenge because many of us grew up in a certain mindset on what ranching looks like, what my pasture should look like, what I do in May of every year, some of those are really big challenges to overcome but the burden is on Noble and these other organizations to continue to work ahead and help answer these questions for farmers and ranchers. Because for the most part, what we're working for is the underlying land. And a lot of people ask the question initially when we were making this transition, but the idea of how big is the grazing land challenge in the United States, 655 million acres, it's the single largest land use of anything in the United States. So when we talk about water quality, water quantity, almost every raindrop passes at one point or another across rangeland. So if we're not doing everything we can to sustain its health bring its health up, then we're missing an opportunity there with the waterside, new markets with regard to carbon, we're not going to explore those, but we should be incredibly versed and how that impacts farmers and ranchers in everything that we're doing, whether it is how you tend to the soil, or ultimately how you measure your progress is going to lend itself to that potential revenue source for farmers and ranchers in the future.

Hugh Aljoe  26:09  

I think you know, when you look at Noble Research Institute, you know, research is in our name, you know, we are here to answer the producer questions. And that's what our objective is using our resources in order to make sure that we're always answering the questions that producers might have, helping them move toward a better, more regenerative state, as early and as quickly as possible. And through that, with financial soundness at the same time.

Shaye Koester  26:36  

Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate everything you both had to offer and taking the time out of your day to be on the show. 

Steve Rhines  26:44  

Thank you. 

Hugh Aljoe  26:45  

It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. 

Shaye Koester  26:47  

And that's a wrap on that one, folks. Thank you, again, for tuning in. If you got something out of this podcast episode that really hit home for you, or you maybe you have a deeper question that wasn't covered, please go drop that in the comment section of my social media posts. There's a post for this episode, as well as a post before it was published. And there will be a post a couple days after as well. So any of those options, please go drop that question or comment about the episode so that we can have a conversation about it, as well as bringing in the rest of my fans to see what we all think about that as we work to combat some of the challenges that we faced with ranching, or maybe trying to open each other's minds to new ideas and new methods. With that, thank you to Steven and Hugh, for sharing your stories and your expertise on this show. I know I really appreciated it. It really got my mind turning about maybe some things to change or what does the future of ranching really look like? So with that, thank you again, and thank you for listening, and I hope to catch you on the next one. 

Red Angus Association of America  28:03  

Profit. Repeat. With Red Angus genetics.  Red Angus, the industry's most-favored female, generates repeated profits for commercial cow-calf producers.  Independent research from a decade of data collection showed Red Angus-sired heifers commanded sixty-six dollars per head more than females of other breed types.  That's nearly five-thousand, three hundred dollars on a single load of replacement heifers. A true boost to profits on your operation!  Why are Red Angus females the most-favored? Their strong maternal characteristics and quiet dispositions top the list. They are also productive, low maintenance and efficient. In short, they do their job and do it well.  Visit RedAngus.org for more information on the industry's most-favored female.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Resources: 

https://redangus.org/

https://www.noble.org/about/?utm_term=%2Bnoble%20%2Bresearch%20%2Binstitute&utm_campaign=National+-+Consumer&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=7474336878&hsa_cam=10697792127&hsa_grp=106343093935&hsa_ad=454272569887&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-934911811908&hsa_kw=%2Bnoble%20%2Bresearch%20%2Binstitute&hsa_mt=b&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=CjwKCAjwybyJBhBwEiwAvz4G7_mDkbwg-s5QPFhVGlfw_rY6I3HyyFSmJYZuLRT5aL5-ozPDThJ2sRoCoeoQAvD_BwE

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Navigating Through the Beef Industry: Ranching to Packing

Trey Wasserburger is making waves in the beef industry. He knew from a young age that he wanted to ranch but that there simply wasn't room on his family's operation. So, he took the initiative to find mentors and work in various segments of the beef industry. In this episode, Trey shares his story about working in different segments of the industry, how he found mentors and what he is excited for as he becomes involved in the packing industry through Sustainable Beef. Transcript: https://casualcattleconversations.blogspot.com/2021/08/TreyWasserburger.html Video: https://youtu.be/XSj9fyDxhhY Audio: https://www.casualcattleconversations.com/episodes Partner: https://forms.gle/VnkrkbfB3m4MFgip7 Patron: https://patron.podbean.com/casualcattleconversations Website: casualcattleconversations.com

Shaye Koester (00:00):

Hey, Hey! It’S Shaye Koester and I’m your host for the Casual Cattle Conversations podcast where we foster innovation and enthusiasm in the ranching industry through sharing the stories and practices of different ranchers and beef industry leaders. Be sure to be a greater part of this podcast and become involved on my social media pages. Follow cattleconvos on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok or Shaye Koester on LinkedIn to join the conversations around the challenges we face as ranchers and how we can overcome them. You can also find more information about this podcast, all my episodes and how to partner with me on my website casualcattleconversations.com. With that, thanks for tuning in and let’s see who our guest is today.

Platform Cattle (01:23):

Cattlemen provide stewardship for our land and husbandry to our cattle. Platform Cattle is a brand that provides those cattlemen with the tools and products they deserve to have. Founded by a fifth-generation rancher that shares the passion behind the cattle industry, Platform Cattle wants to help introduce new ways to help cowboys not change them. We are proud to be able to introduce a product that does just that Bovi-box is the first-ever free-choice, protein supplement for cattle that carries live probiotic post-production, which can enhance gut health, improve immunity response, increased mineral absorption and strengthen cow performance. Bovi-Box includes a full mineral package as well, featuring Availa-4 by Zinpro performance minerals. It fits into natural, value-added and NHTC value-added protocols. It's made into a 100-pound block that is packaged in a completely biodegradable cardboard box, so there is no more picking tubs out of the fence or pond. Manufactured by Agri-beef, a major cattle feeding company, this makes Bovi-box a product truly made for cattle and designed by cattlemen. For more information about Bovi-box and the ways it can fit into your operation visit platformcattle.com or call Emmet store at (308) 650-1897.

Shaye Koester (02:46):

Alrighty folks, thank you for tuning into another episode and thank you Emmett with Platform Cattle for sponsoring this episode and bringing it to the audience here. Really appreciate being a part of the show in that form. Now, with that on today's show, we are going to be interviewing Trey Wasserburger, and you have probably heard his name, seen his name, maybe, you know him and have seen him around personally, but he sure has an outstanding story in the beef industry. He really has made an effort and has worked hard to work in different segments of the industry and fully understand how the industry operates. So I'm going to have him share his story about that and talk about his latest venture with the Sustainable Beef packing plant in North Platte, Nebraska. So, that is also a very interesting part of the conversation that we will have today. Now with that, thank you for tuning in. I'm glad I get to be a part of your day. It means a lot to me to see another download come, even if I don't know who you are. But if you'd like to introduce yourself, please go do that on social media. And let me know, you're listening, ask me a question, do all that. But with that, let's get on with the episode.

Shaye Koester (04:08):

So just to start off what's your background in the beef industry?

Trey Wasserburger (04:14):

I was originally raised in Gillette, Wyoming, and both sides of the family are ranchers and homesteaded there. The Wasserburger family, north Lusk, Wyoming just had their Centennial celebration a hundred years and then on my mom's side, the Geisinger ranch also continues to ranch in the Thunder Basin grasslands. I went to school at the University of Wyoming and was on the rodeo team there and just went through, you know, typical college stuff. I didn't really know what I wanted to be when I grew up and I'm still trying to figure that out. I knew I wanted to be in ranching somehow and some way, but knew I was going to have to do it on my own. I met my wife there at the University of Wyoming and her family has a strong ag background too. Her dad is a farmer/feeder cattle feeder here near Hershey, Nebraska. Her mother's side is the Adamson ranch. It's been up in the Sandhills forever, hundreds of years. So we just have a strong background behind it, but we're on our own trip right now, for sure. I mean, we bought the registered Angus herd here four years ago and just trying to wade our way through agriculture pretty much.

Shaye Koester (05:35):

So where are you located now?

Trey Wasserburger (05:37):

We live here south of North Platte, Nebraska, and we bought the Rishel Angus cow herd. Which bill Rishel who's Nebraska Cattlemen President, and a member of the Angus board among other accolades, 40-year-old genetics, kind of took me in as a mentor. He showed me the way and four years ago, I never even had a registered cow, never even owned one. Now, we're running about 800. So a life in the fast lane right now.

Shaye Koester (06:07):

Well, that certainly sounds like it. So you didn't necessarily go to ranching right away. You talked about how you kind of grew up around it and with it, but you had to weave your own path through that. So what other sectors of the beef industry did you explore before that, during that time gap?

Trey Wasserburger (06:26):

You know, family deals are hard in agriculture. It's terrible, but in agriculture, we flip a coin when you're born and usually if you're a boy you get to stay and if you're a girl, you gotta find your own way. And then worse than that, if you're the second son, we do it again. Not only was I the second son, but I'm like the sixth grandson and I had an interesting upbringing. I was highly involved in sports and athletics and that was just our life. I knew that if I wanted to be a part of this industry, I was going to have to do it on my own. And, I've known that since I was a child. I mean, I thank my family, my grandpa, and my dad and his brother. Thank you for never falsifying a hope to me that I could come home, you know, and all of a sudden I'm 50 years old and I just worked for the family. They've always told me, you know, that there's not a lot of room here and that's okay. I mean you'll figure it out if you want to be in this, you'll figure it out and so I have. I've got a wonderful set of mentors, probably about five guys that I look up to in all sectors of the industry that I can call at any time, any place and asked her advice. I worked in five states and in I worked in five ranches in five states in college. I worked in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, and a little bit in Utah and different ranches in Oklahoma for a little bit. I learned a lot and kind of figured out that there is my favorite saying from one of my mentors, is there's money to be made in any market whether it's a down market or an upmarket, there's some money to be made. I've learned that from a young age.

Trey Wasserburger (08:29):

You know my real job, I guess, is buying and selling cattle. That's what I do and that is the industry. The industry is a trade, whether you're trading hay that day, or a see distiller's truck just drove by. I'm looking at the fat cattle market right now, we're just about getting ready to open up and we're going to have to watch what corn does overnight. Corn is up big again. I mean, life is a constant trade, and I've had to figure out that everything you do, whether you're buying diesel six months in advance, or you're buying new crop corn. I mean, life is a trade, and I'm just having to figure out that balance and the best way to figure that out is with your checkbook and that's the best experience I've had. I went to college and I love the Engler program, but you'll learn a lot when you're there and you'll learn a ton when you leave there. I mean, I'm in the Engler program now without being enrolled in it really. I mean, I'm getting baptized every day and tuition is high,

Shaye Koester (09:31):

It's all about the experience.

Trey Wasserburger (09:33):

It's totally and the Engler program prepares you for that. And then you step into the real world and you start writing some checks and you get pretty smart.

Shaye Koester (09:41):

Yeah, absolutely. So you've talked about how you have basically a mentor and all the different sectors of the industry that you can call and gain advice from. And that is extremely valuable with, as segmented as the beef industry is, but how did you put yourself in a place to find these mentors?

Trey Wasserburger (10:01):

You know what, I always get that question. I've spoken at multiple universities to animal science graduates, ranch rec graduates, and they always ask me, they're like, "How did you get started in agriculture? "I get asked that every time I talk to them and the best way I know how to tell them is. "Agriculture is full of mentors that want to help you." This is what I love about agriculture. There's a lot of been there, done that perennial entrepreneurs in the industry that if you just show up and go to work, they're going to give you that information. And what is highly unlikely in agriculture is they'll give it to you for virtually free, very rarely, and I'm getting into the packing industry now, very rarely do secrets, get lended down to the next generation for free. In agriculture that is not the case. If you put in the time, show up and go to work and you just outwork them, these guys will give you that information. I always tell that to young guys and young women. I say, find the person you look up to the most and go to work for them. I did that a couple of times, the guys that I looked up to and they wouldn't even hire me. They're like, "Trey, I'm not going to hire you. Everybody wants to work for me." I worked for a guy and he didn't even pay me. I just rode in the pickup with him for six months and just picked his brain and just swallowed it all up. Next thing you know, he never paid me a dime, but today he taught me how to buy and sell cattle and I can call him at any time of the day and have his advice. All I had to do was show up at 4:30 in the morning and drive him to a country delivery or a sale barn and swallow that information up. Those guys are out there now. We're getting into the packing industry as a family and I'm around multiple CEOs of the big four or former CEOs. I can call them and text them at any time. They're sending me books. I got the Cargill story over there that I'm reading. I'm reading about IBP and their start and Iowa Beef Processors. Agriculture is full of people that want to lend you their information. You just have to show up and I've seen some young kids fully embrace that theory and they're doing big things.

Shaye Koester (12:33):

Yeah. And I think that the start of those companies are interesting. I was an intern with Cargill last year, so hearing the whole history on how they started as one thing and built up is pretty neat to see.

Shaye Koester (12:48):

Going back to still kind of talking about how you've explored different areas. So you said you worked on different ranches, but did you work say in the feeder space or previously in the packing space or one of those outside of cow-calf?

Trey Wasserburger (13:05):

Yeah, I've worked in sale barns. I've worked in yearling ranches and stalkers. I've worked in multiple feed yards which I learned a ton. I think every entrepreneur in agriculture should spend a year and a half in a feed yard. You'll not only learn about animal nutrition but animal health as well. Learning to see sick cattle is a gift that not many acquire in a lifetime because they don't see enough. You know, you go into these corporate feed yards today with 80,000 or a hundred thousand on feed. You get to see a lot of stuff that you won't see normally on your typical 400 head cow-calf ranch. So, I did that. I spent time on some feed yards and continue to spend time in feed yards.

Trey Wasserburger (13:57):

And also, I love to hit say this, and it kind of makes these registered guys uncomfortable, but I think every registered breeder should run about 200 commercial cows. And, I think every commercial man should have about 20 or 40 registered cows and we'd have a lot better understanding of each other in this industry. I get that people kind of cringe. I'm like, I mean you guys are working together. We need the cow-calf guy to raise the bull that's going to sire the calf to the commercial cattlemen that's going to go to the feeder that's going to go to the packer and it needs to go to the retailer. You better know everybody along the way. This business is tiny. I'll just tell you we shipped six loads of cattle last night to Caviness packer down in Amarillo, Texas. I mean, here's the guy that I was working with. I was in his plant a week ago and Jerome, Idaho. I never met him. He just called me needing some cattle. I said, well, I'm actually in your plant in Idaho. And he's like, "What really?" It's a tiny world out there. So, find these people you respect and you want to emulate and just show up and they will pass that onto you. I mean, Bill Rishell did it to me. One of my best mentors I have is a banker. He is the president of First National Bank, North Platte, Nebraska. He's like a father figure of mine. He's not a cowboy at all. He doesn't wear a hat. He doesn't run cows and this guy has taught me more about credit and interest and he has made me more money just by sitting in the desk than probably anybody. So there's those guys out there. You just gotta work for it and earn it and they'll give it to

Shaye Koester (15:44):

You. Well, absolutely I'd agree and that's a topic that's been brought up on countless episodes on the show. That's an experience I've had too. I don't know that there's been one person who's ever denied me any help especially once they see that you're interested in actually working for it, they'll continue to help you. That's one thing the beef industry is outstanding at, and your point about running both commercial and registered cattle, it makes a difference. I grew up with both. It makes a difference. I mean the more I bought a few more on each side, it changes your mindset a little bitnand it's great to see that.

Shaye Koester (16:25):

You've talked about, you know, you worked hard, obviously you found these positions, you sought out those mentors, but what was one of the challenges you faced?

Trey Wasserburger (16:38):

It takes a ton of collateral, or it takes a ton of equity to get started and people always say that. So I'll just be very, very upfront. I have no problem telling people this because I started with nothing. I inherited nothing and I am. I was 24 years old and I kicked out 800 yearlings on a lease. I graduated, I walked and I missed my graduation because I was kicking out yearlings in Wyoming. I went to the FSA and got a first-generation rancher loan and got going on that. Then, also I found a yearling guy that I looked up to and respected and he kind of financed me and got me going. The biggest thing I found is it takes so much money in this business to make so little. I mean, we're talking about return on investment all the time and the packing industry you know, our margins are slim. Agricultural margins are tiny. I mean, in the registered side the difference between an open cow and a bread one is it's an incredible amount of money. The most expensive thing I do is probably have a first calf heifer that doesn't breed, because she's never cashed a check and she's leaving. I got three years, into her, you know, one in utero and two on feed and she's never cashing a check. And, in the feed yard the difference between spotting a pen that's just about tip over and one that's not is the difference between making money and losing money. And that's what I love. It scares people off almost in agriculture. That terrifies them. That one little accident can ruin as you know, it's six or eight months investment.

Trey Wasserburger (18:33):

I think it's a culling point because if you show up every day and take care of business, take care of your assets there's plenty of margin and there's plenty of room to operate in this business. Once again, just show up. I tell these kids that all the time, just show up and go to work and put your head down and your ears open, mouth shut for a long time and somebody will take you under their wing. There's a ton of opportunity out there, a ton. And there's going to be more in 10 years, Joe Goggins is one of my guys I emulate and Greg is his son is one of my best friends and sells our bull sale. I talked to him yesterday. He sat me and Greg down three or four years ago and they're one of the major reasons I got into the registered business because I came to them and said, "What do you think?" They said, "Do it." I said, "I've never run a registered cow." "You'll be fine. You know how to run commercial cows. You just jerk the papers away from them. You know how to make commercial cow work. You'll figure it out. You'll know how to. You'll be good for the industry." Joe sat us down a long time ago. He said, "You and Greg will have a lot of opportunities in your life going forward. All you gotta do is at work." When I came home there's a lot of, a lot of competition today. So this is, this is, this is after the fact, but I lived in a house in Laramie, Wyoming. There were four of us, all of us involved in agriculture. And I'm the last one left whose sole, primary income is agriculture. I mean, that tells you how tough this business is, but also there's not a lot of us out there and there's going to be a lot of opportunity.

Shaye Koester (20:27):

Well, absolutely. And thank you for sharing that. There's a lot that everyone can take from that. So is there something you wish you would've done different as you look on in the past or the last few years? One big thing? I know there's always a lot of things, but I always like to ask for like one bigger thing for some advice

Trey Wasserburger (20:48):

For my advice would be probably there's, I've been in some, in some situations financially that were tough and I've been tipped over twice in 10 years and a lot of it involved feeding cattle and I'm there today. I'm here in June, again, just getting ready to take it, take another whack at it because these calf feds aren't going to work again. Probably my biggest wrecks have taught me the most and you know what, I might lose a hundred or $150 or $200 on that pen of calf-feds, but I'm damn sure smarter than when I started. It's a silver lining and it took me a long time. My father-in-law Kirk Olson taught me some advice and my banker gave me this right here.

Trey Wasserburger (21:50):

This is exactly what I'm talking about. So this sits behind my desk. I don't know if you can see it, but it says "Sometimes you win. Sometimes you learn." And you know, if that pen of steers didn't work or those yearlings turned out didn't do what you thought they did. We're turning a bunch of yearlings out today. We just loaded some and weighed them. We bred a bunch of heifers yesterday and maybe the breed-up won't be good. You know, it was a little hot. I mean, sometimes you win, and the other times you learn and learn quite a bit and it's expensive, but you're a lot smarter than when you started. So I don't have any regrets. I just doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result that's what I regret. I regret if I try to pen and then try it again and got the same result. And I kind of wonder, "Why?" I have no regrets, everything that I've failed on, I've learned on. It's just a tough, tough business.

Shaye Koester (22:49):

Oh, absolutely. So kind of shifting gears a little bit, you brought it up how you're on the packing side now. So would you share how you've become more involved in the packing side recently?

Trey Wasserburger (23:03):

There are a lot of people have heard about Sustainable Beef LLC. This is a company of like-minded entrepreneurial agriculture-based Nebraska founders that came together a year ago, last June and said, "This is not working." I mean, we'd been through the Holcomb fire, we were in that pandemic and June was tough. I mean, if you had cattle on feed, you lost the third-year equity overnight in May and June. That's tough to swallow. I learned a lot from that situation. But we came together and said we've got to change. There are a lot of cattle feeders involved, venture capitalists just leader type that said, you know, packer margins are $1500 at that time, $1,600. And today they're hovering around 700 to a thousand. Box beef is on a tear. I mean, yesterday was the first time it was down in 10 days and it was down 38 cents. I mean my family will raise the bull. So there's three years, they'll sire the calf and then he's born and then 18 months on feed. So we're talking my, family's got five years invested into this one. And there's times that there isn't any, we're not in the black ink at the end and to invest five years and lose money, it's not sustainable and it's not healthy. I don't want my children to go through that. But when you, when you, when you shift that fat cattle, and then he goes to, you know, one of the Packers and that packer is making, you know, historical margins Packers make a hundred, $120 a head that's really healthy. You know, they own them. They can own them 48, 38 hours. And I'm going to tell you, my family has got five years involved and they've got a 48-hour chill and they're making a hundred historically. I think over the past 20 years, feeder margins at mid $20 a head. My credit guy, he would tell me that's a bad, that's a bad bet. And you know, I just, we had to do something and we feel like we have a story.

Trey Wasserburger (25:33):

We're not trying to be the big four. We're not trying to attack the big four because that's a battle we won't win. We're not going to, they are a machine and we need them. I mean, when they can kill 25, 30, 30,000 a day, and these cattle are backed up on feed, we need them, whether you like it or not suing the packer or going after the packer is a bad idea because they are our ally. Whether you believe it or not, we need them in this business today.

Trey Wasserburger (26:03):

I don't care who you are, organization, government, department of justice, they will not save us. I tried that. I helped to DOJ last year, then Trump lost the election and we switched changing of the guard with the DOJ and we lost all that momentum we had there. Now we're starting it back up again. Bill Sack is the secretary ag and he actually and he was President Obama's secretary of ag in his first eight years. Bill Sack actually, you know, they won the Iowa vote because they said we're going to reform agriculture policies and they tried it and didn't happen. Bill Sack told me, "We're not worried about bigness. We're worried about anti-competitive behavior and until you can prove that there's anti-competitive behavior, nothing will be done."

Trey Wasserburger (27:05):

I was also told by another former Senator that until we break up big tech, you know, where there's basically two techs companies that control and mine, all the data on you. I mean, I was at a branding the other day last Saturday, and they had these aluminum cups and I thought these aluminum solo cups were so cool. I didn't say anything. I didn't even ask anybody. I just saw them and the box and thoughg, "That's neat." On my phone, I had an ad target for aluminum solo cups. I mean, this ad targeting and this tech data is insane today. And if you, I mean, I think it's the most expensive or valuable currency today. And you're also talking big tech and big pharma, you know big pharma, basically is a monopolistic industry. These are the same guys that got tobacco, codeine and fentanyl on the market. I mean, those three things kill you and they got them on the market and you're going to break them up. No, it ain't going to happen until they get rid of big tech and big pharma will they work on the packing industry. So us as a team had to get together and change something and we knew that the government wasn't coming, there wasn't an organization that was going to save us, or we had to do it on our own. So we got together with some former Cargill team members, you know, vice president of engineering, former CEO Bill Rupp also is the former CEO, JBS Swift and Cargill is on our team. Because once again, we were doing something we knew nothing about and we needed to find somebody that did.

Trey Wasserburger (28:55):

So we went out and found the best team that could act as a consultant and get us going. And, we got about most of the cattle locked up. The packer margins are insane so the money wasn't as hard as you'd think to find, but it is a $400 million project and it's a three-year project. I mean we won't be hanging cattle until January of 2023, and we hope to break ground September. So you're talking 14, 16 months of nothing. It's a $400 million project and we'll be putting all that in to build it and then we're going to be hopefully running. It's going to be here in North Platte right off the interstate, hooked up to city wastewater.

Trey Wasserburger (29:45):

It's a beautiful site with a lot easy access. The city of North Platte, Nebraska is ag-based. We really need this for our community. Our railroad's pulling out and we just got our economic study done from Dr. Ernie Goss, who's an economist at Creighton University, and it's a $1.1 billion impact for the city of North Platte. For a rural community to have $1.1 billion floating around it like yeah the brain trust is in North Platte. If we ship these cattle to Tyson or Cargill or JBS that money hits a wire at the end of the day and it's gone. That's not the case here. This money will stay right here in North Platte and will be revolving around the community and it's a big thing. It's going to add 800 jobs, many of them you know, the average wage on the floor being about $50,000 and probably the way it's working.

Trey Wasserburger (30:43):

You know, there's not a plant today. That's not a hundred to 150 to 200 people looking for 200 people to join the ranks and they can't find them. I mean, this is a huge problem. This employment deal, I never saw this coming, but our administration has got to pull the benefits and get these people at work. Hopefully, by 2023, this all be fixed, but I think it could pay more. Don't quote me on that because I don't know. But KBS has upped their wages. Tyson has upped their wages the last two months trying to get people to work and they still can't get them to work. So, you know, when you're making $25 on the floor and you can't get them to show up, that's an issue. So yeah, we're going to go at it. I it's going to happen. Not only does the community need it, but the industry needs it. I think the number one problem facing us as an industry is packing capacity. Totally. We have an oversupply of cattle and we're not getting worked through them. Covid didn't help and then these people not showing up to work and help. It's something that we need and I think that everybody can get behind it, everybody in the industry.

Shaye Koester (32:00):

Well, thank you for sharing so much about that. I mean, that's exciting to hear and thank you for working through like the whole mindset and problem there. So what are you most excited about for the plant? Like when you think about your involvement in there, like what makes you the most excited?

Trey Wasserburger (32:19):

Probably the thing that excites me the most is being able to actually share my product with the consumer. Like that's something that we're not exactly tied to today because the major Packers, I mean, they are such a machine that, you know, when they harvest 6,000 head a day they don't have that close relationship with the consumer. Sustainable Beef will have a blockchain technology where that mother, that soccer mom in Loveland, Colorado, can take a picture of that QRC code and it'll go back to the Koester Ranch in North Dakota. It's a beautiful thing and that is what I love about agriculture. We are insanely prideful in our work. We are, I mean, we do this because we love it, right?

Trey Wasserburger (33:10):

It's not because it's lucrative. It's not because it's easy work. We do it because we're passionate about it. What could make you prouder than having it hooked up to Sustainable Beef's Instagram and a picture of a family in Phoenix, Arizona having steaks at a big barbecue pops up and it goes back to your ranch. Another thing that we've come up with, which I love, I'm working with a guy who's done a lot of blockchain stuff. We're thinking about say this, this family in St. Louis, Missouri eats this steak and they pull up the QRC code, and it goes back to this ranch in the Sand Hills and you know what, they loved it so much. They left a great review and what if they tip them and say, "Wow, that was really good. Here's five bucks." or something like that. Just how cool would that be to get a notification in your phone that some family in St. Louis has loved your steak so much that they tip you $5. And, it's not about the money. It's just about how good that made you feel. And so we're working through some things. We're talking about tenderness, which is huge, and it's going to be huge going forward. We just haven't figured out a way for us to pay it. Our, plan is going to be, we're not trying to take a piece of the pie. We're trying to make the pie bigger because we don't think we can compete for that pie today. We're not big enough, but we can make our own kind of niche market and we're going to be an athletic, nimble company.

Trey Wasserburger (34:44):

And we're going to do like 30 sorts on carcasses. We hope. A lot of that will be on quality of meat. Obviously, choice and prime and also tenderness. So we're really excited about that. I think never, you know, in our time in agriculture has being healthy and nutritious ever been more important and we need to tell that story. I mean, we're going up against an artificial, lab-produced meat, or it's plant produce proteins. It's not a meat that's made in a vat. It's got more chemicals in it than dog food and we're not telling that story. You know, what's the one ingredient in beef? Beef. I mean, it's as wholesome and nutritious as they make. We need to share that story. And this is a time for Sustainable Beef to take the stage and take the microphone and get in front of the consumer and have that conversation.

Trey Wasserburger (35:37):

And more than that, I think it's the new frontier of the beef industry. I do. I think origin and source is what the consumer wants and what it's asking for. We've had lots of retailers called already. I mean, multiple from all over the world, we think 70% of this will be exported. They are highly intrigued in what we got going like Napa wine, you know, is the same as you know, beef in Nebraska and we are the beef state. So let's tell that story and let's profit from that story. Let's bring that money back to rural America and Sustainable Beef. Sustainable beef can do that.

Shaye Koester (36:13):

Well, that's exciting to hear. And I think the concept of, I really love the concept of the consumer. Being able to see where that product came from. I think it's all valuable and out. And like you said, sharing our story. We have to be proactive with how we do that. We can't wait to combat someone else. We need to share our story for what it is right now and how we are already healthy.

Trey Wasserburger (36:38):

Yup. No, one's going to do that for us. And that's our job. That's our job. We need to be salesmen. And we continue as in agriculture, we're always like my grandpa was always worried about that fence over there or I gotta fix that baler. We're always worried about what's inside our fences. A lot of us aren't thinking what's going on outside. Whether you think so or not about it, every day we are part of the food chain. We're a very, very important part and a valuable part and that's not going to change. The packers don't want our job. I mean, people are like, oh, vertical integration is coming. We're going to be like chicken and hig guys. It's not going to be like that at all. They can mass produce chicken and hogs in huge confinement barns in six months. The beef deal is not that way. It's just not, and it's not going to be that way. Producers are always going to have a part of the food chain. We just need to make that pie a little bigger and educate the consumer. And then, you know, let's be profitable from it.

Shaye Koester (37:40):

Well, absolutely. So how has, I mean, you've touched on it a little bit, but how has being on the seedstock side and now on the packer side? So you're on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. How has that made you think a little differently about beef production?

Trey Wasserburger (37:57):

Yeah. I was a cattle feeder before I got in the registered business. So I was, I'm highly intrigued by quality grade, obviously. Nothing pays me more today than a prime carcass and that's something that's very important to me. It continues more today in the more I get into this. Now I'm more in the packing industry and I'm working with marketing teams from all over the world about what they want. They tell me that that choice in prime is that's what they want. Then I got told by the number one retailer in the world. "I don't want more meat, Trey. I want better." I can sell better and we got to get better. I want consistency. You know, see Certified Angus Beef has been a billion-dollar non-profit because they've made parameters on standards on the length of ribeye and the quality grade.

Trey Wasserburger (39:01):

That's what our retailer wants, because that's what sells first. Every meat case in America has a camera over it that is mining data on how this consumer is spending their money and how, how she's gonna react to the $5.99 hamburger and the $4.99, hamburger. Is it packaging? Is it appeasement? What is it? Is it where it is at on the shelf? It's a whole different science. I'll be honest with you. I was kind of ignorant to the fact not very long ago. I mean, I'm learning more and more every day about the packing industry and retail side and a year ago I didn't realize that this packing industry is tough. I mean, a lot of people want to fight the packer and go after the packer. I mean, the issues they stand today are incredible.

Trey Wasserburger (39:55):

You know, getting people to work and dealing with the pandemic at all-time prices. I mean, they're getting paid. The fruits of their labor are very lucrative, but they're earning every bit of it, man. I mean, you know what? One of the guys kind of mentoring me in the business. He starts his day at 4:30 in the morning, and he's at the plant at 5:15, and he's in control of about 30 plants and two days a week, he jumps on the plane and he flies into a plant somewhere in the US and goes through it and manages it. Then he gets home seven o'clock, eight o'clock at night. And he does this six days a week. And it's, it's a tough, tough business. And that's something I took for granted. Now as a registered breeder I think we have a sole responsibility to educate not only the consumers, but our producers. These guys buying these bulls. This is their livelihood.

Trey Wasserburger (40:50):

Like Joe Goggins has always told me, Trey, "You're dealing with people's livelihood and that's something you can never take lightly as a registered breeder." Bill Rishel says the same thing. I mean, you have to do your homework. You have to make sure these bulls are structurally and fundamentally sound and are going to put pounds on the plate and, and healthy marbled meat. I mean, that's very important. Today, it's never been more reiterated and I'm not going to get radical. I'm not going to just get radical marbling and breed marbling more one marbling. I mean, our mantra here at TD Angus/Rishel Ranch is the most of the best. I asked Bill Rishel one time. I really had a hard time sorting replacement heifers the first time I was here because I didn't understand data as well.

Trey Wasserburger (41:38):

I was just like, well, she's a $300 C, but I'd change her front end a little bit. I'd add a little flank to her. I don't know if I like her as much, but here's this really feminine, soft-made sound female that doesn't read as good. Which one is going to be the better cow? And I asked Bill Rishel, "How do I do that?" And he said, "You need to make her have the most of the best. Which one has the most of the best." And, I've used that in every aspect of my life. It doesn't matter if I buy it feeder cattle to turn out on grass, or if I'm buying bred heifers, or eventually, it will be the meat and the meat side and the meat case. And we need to have the most of the best.

Trey Wasserburger (42:21):

Not only do we need to have the best quality, we need the best consistency and the best tenderness. We need to have the most to the best and I need to supply the bulls that are going to do that for my customers. Before this year's bull sale you know, we were selling as many more bulls than we ever had, 300 bulls. I was pretty stressed out about it, obviously. I mean, it's like the worst day of the year. I hate it. It's like your wedding every year. You can't talk to everybody and get everything done, and it's just mayhem. Then you throw an auction in the middle of it. One of my guys that's helped me in the packing industry said, "Trey, these are the bulls that are going to sire the calves that are going to go through to the plant."

Trey Wasserburger (43:01):

I was sitting right over there at that desk at about 4:30 in the morning when he called. He was going to work and that really struck me. I mean, if anything I've ever done, I sat there and was like, wow, we're already preparing for what's to come. I've been told that the startup date is January 2023, and that's prom and you better get ready for the prom night and you better have your date. So we sold the bulls that are going to sire the calves all the way through the blockchain. So this has already begun people think because we haven't broke dirt that you know, that we're maybe not going to happen. Guys, I've already set the bulls out there that are working all over the country in 26 states that are going to sire the calves that go through this plant. We're well on our way. We work at it every day, so pretty exciting stuff

Shaye Koester (43:59):

That is very exciting and very neat and a very good perspective and point to say. So as we kinda wrap up, is there anything else you would like to add? Whether that's about the packing side or individuals in the industry, or just about the industry as a whole?

Trey Wasserburger (44:15):

Well, I'd be, I'd be naive to not take the opportunity to thank all my mentors. Bill Rishel, who I bought the registered Angus herd from, he's available to chat any time of day. He gave me the opportunity. We never, one time counted bales, never counted cattle. He just said, here's the list and I bought from herd bulls to scoop shovels, and I trusted him and he trusted me. It's been a beautiful relationship and I want to thank him. I want to thank my father-in-law Kirk Olson who took me in as a cattle feeder, young kid didn't have much. He's taught me the business. He's treated me better than a son. Greg Willkie former president of First National Bank taught me about credit and how to borrow money and stay within your means on debt. John Keating, who was the former CEO of Cargill, has been a good friend and has taught me what we call packer kindergarten and I'm in it every day and no question is too ignorant for him. I mean and I'm just a guy in Nebraska wearing a cowboy hat. So talk to me like that. And he's taught me a lot. I want to thank him and his family and the guys that surrounded me. I wouldn't be there without them.

Trey Wasserburger (45:34):

I'm excited about where we're heading in the future. And also it'd be my opportunity to anybody listening to this, to reach out to Sustainable Beef. This is a great team and it's as good of a team as I've ever been a part of. The guys that got hundreds of years of a reputation built into this thing and reach out to any one of us. We're not gate sorting producers. I mean, if you want to buy shackle space, if you want your cattle, you know, we're going to put an EID tag in their ear at branding, and we're going to track them all the way through to the plant.

Trey Wasserburger (46:05):

We want these guys involved and more people involved. It's a greater chance of this succeeding because whether you like it or not, this has never been done. I need to remind myself that constantly, that this has never been done and we need all the help we can get. And so we want all. We've had a Hereford breeder from Texas get involved with this. This is all breeds, all classes of all people and if you don't want to feed your cattle that's okay. You can invest on the capital side too and reap the benefits of that. We all know how well and how lucrative that's been. I just want to thank all the people that have gotten me here. And I think having, you know, the Engler program has been great and you know, Lapaseotes family is heavily involved in the Engler program and they're involved in sustainable beef. Yeah, it's just been a great, great program and a great thing for Nebraska and probably for the industry.

Shaye Koester (47:02):

Awesome. Thank you very much. That's all I've got. So I appreciate that.

Trey Wasserburger (47:08):

Yeah, you bet. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it.

Shaye Koester (47:12):

And that's a wrap on that one. Thank you for tuning into another episode and thank you, Trey, for your outstanding advice and story, and really sharing that with everyone. I always appreciate it when people are honest and really give the truth and provide the truth about, you know, what they've learned in the hardships faced and their successes too. It's always exciting to hear those stories, but with that, please let me know what you thought. Go drop a comment on some of my social media pages to let me know. I want to hear it and so do the other fans. Let's build a community around this, but with that, be sure to tune in for the next one. I hope to see you listening on there and have a great rest of your day.

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