Shaye (00:00):
Shaye (00:18):
All right, happy March folks. I know the weather has been cold. Hopefully those past few weeks in February, didn't hit you too hard. If they did my condolences to you. Now on another note today, we will be listening to Casey Fanta and Casey is someone who I have known my whole life, and he is going to visit with us today about the skillset that is needed to really become a hired hand on a ranch and move up into those ranch management positions and how you get into those higher positions of managing ranches and managing people and the cattle, and really what it takes to get there. And a little bit about what today's labor force is lacking to be successful and fully effective in that area. It's a short interview. It's honest, I guess, like I said, I've known Casey my whole life. Not expecting nothing less and it was just fun for me to visit.
Shaye Koester (01:10):
So he has some amazing advice. Remember that if you want to support this podcast and allow it to keep going too. And if you like what I'm doing, please go to that patron option that is on my website. Or if you're on my Instagram on Facebook, there's a link in my bio is about it, but that really allows you to donate. And I appreciate all my donors. I appreciate. I mean, you have all been outstanding in helping me keep this going and that's helped, but if you're interested in helping support the cause to keep this business going and to do more of my lives and hopefully add on some webinars, please go find that option with that. If you'd like the episode, you know, comment what you like on my Facebook and Instagram posts. It's great for me to see that and spark that conversation with other fans. I love to see you interacting. And I really, um, brings joy to me to see you learning and teaching each other. So with that, let's get on with the episode and hear from Casey. Good morning. How are you?
Casey Fanta (02:08):
I'm good. Except I had a hard time finding a spot to do this. So I'm at the fairgrounds in Kearney and I literally had three different spots picked out and I was getting ready and everything's starting to pick up here and people are moving in and, and they just got too noisy. So
Shaye Koester (02:25):
I appreciate you working around this. I know it's not an ideal time of year. So, so to get started, what is your background with the ranching industry? Where did you start?
Casey Fanta (02:36):
So as you well know, Shaye, I grew up pretty close to where you did, um, at Tappen, North Dakota on a farm and ranch. And I got to know Shaye Koester because I've known her dad forever and her mom for almost ever. So, um, that's how I, I got to know you of course, but, uh, grew up on a mixed farm and ranch and got involved in, uh, 4-H and, and showing cattle and livestock judging and that type of thing and found that that was my passion. Um, my grandpa was really into the cattle and it was kind of his passion. My dad, not so much, he was more of the farmer of the family, but, uh, so when I got out of school, I know I knew I wanted to go to school to pursue something in animal science. That's always been my thing is cattle.
Casey Fanta (03:26):
And, and, uh, so I went to school for a few years, got offered a job, um, kind of a management position and have been managing ranches purebred ranches ever since. Um, so I have always had a passion for the cattle, uh, the industry, uh, everything to do with it. So, and currently I'm a seedstock manager for Wulf cattle, um, based out of Morris, Minnesota, our ranches, that Atkinson, Nebraska. Um, I look after all the genetics, the breeding, uh, bull sales, that all, all of that type of thing, everything to do with the registered herd in the, in the customers. So,
Shaye Koester (04:05):
Yeah, that is awesome. So quite the background and experience with that, with the ranch management side. So about how long have you been in your position at Wulf's?
Casey Fanta (04:16):
Um, I think it's coming up on nine years now. So, um, nine short years, it feels like because time goes by really fast when you're busy and, and, uh, you know, we've seen a lot of changes even just in the past nine years, um, with the cattle, the industry and especially the technology. So it, uh, for an older guy like myself, it that's the hard part to keep up with. I always say, because I grew up taking care of cattle. That part comes naturally, but the technology, it takes a little work to keep up on it and, uh, and you have to kind of pick and choose what you're going to use too, because there's so much stuff out there anymore that, I mean, you could constantly be just, uh, just working on new technology and chasing new ideas.
Shaye Koester (05:03):
Totally. And so with that, how do you, I know it's not necessarily what we planned on talking about, but how do you go about kind of picking and choosing what you invest your time researching and maybe applying as opposed to what you don't?
Casey Fanta (05:16):
Well, I think, you know, the, probably the most important is, is what, um, comes back to, to the bottom line. Um, we also feed a lot of cattle, so we get a lot of information back. Uh, we feed a lot of our customers calves, and we turn in our carcass data. We do a lot of feed efficiency testing. So we're just trying to make the most efficient animal possible at producing beef. And there's vast differences when you get into it. And, and some of it, some of it, you can see, you like to be able to say that you can see it, um, you know, growing up in it, you want to think that you can see it with your eye. And there always is some that you can, but the data is so important, um, tracking the data, tracking the consistency of different genetics at doing, you know, producing the top product consistently, not just occasionally that type of thing.
Casey Fanta (06:08):
Um, so that's our that's always, our goal is, is to Bruce the most profitable feeding cattle in the, in the most profitable and, and product, um, in, in the best way possible, you know, a lot of the things that, that have taken place are the genomically enhanced EPDs and those types of projects. We've done a lot of projects, um, with Neogen on that. And, uh, in, in working with that program, we've tested a lot of commercial cattle. Uh, we do extensive amount of carcass testing, uh, carcas s results. Um, we're using a lot of our limousine, genetics and dairies, and we recently just contributed over 50,000 carcass records to IGS basically out of those dairy cattle, because it's just so much easier to track the sires of those calves and to get back to performance.
Shaye Koester (06:57):
Yeah, you definitely are doing a lot as far as keeping up on the technology side and implementing that into the operation. All right. So going back to your experience, managing different ranches, what are some of those key experiences early on that have led you into the position you are at today?
Casey Fanta (07:16):
Um, I think it's just a, a, um, I think it's just the knowledge that you pick up from being in the industry and working with different operations and different people, um, that it's really hard to teach somebody in a short amount of time. So when I went to work for Wulf Cattle, I remember, uh, Jerry Wulf telling me that, you know, there's a lot of university graduates are well qualified. You know, recent graduates are well qualified to do the job that I was going to do. They just maybe didn't have the experience to talk to the customers. And, um, he, uh, he said, they need to know how to speak North Dakotan, which was being from North Dakota. I knew what he meant because you need to be able to communicate with the rancher and they have to have a respect for you that, that you, you know, what they know, and you have lived what they live. And if you don't have that, it doesn't mean that you can't succeed, but it makes it a lot harder.
Shaye Koester (08:15):
Absolutely. So in your position, how many people are you kind of managing under you or what's your role with managing people on the operation?
Casey Fanta (08:23):
So I don't manage any people other than customers. Um, when I started, I told them that my, my passion was managing cattle. I liked managing customers, but I did not like managing help. And so I go to the different sites that we have our ranch and even the feedlots or whatever. And I, I act more like a consultant and tell them what needs to be done. And then the managers onsite, um, get that done. Some of that is because we also use a lot of Hispanic labor and in cases, there's people there that can communicate with them much better than what I can. Um, the one, the one thing, and I think what you kind of spurred this conversation was a few years ago now already, or maybe it was just a little over a year ago, we talked about how hard it is to find help.
Casey Fanta (09:12):
And it's not finding labor. We can find labor, it's finding skilled labor. And I, since then, I've actually had time to think about that, that the conversation that I was going to have with you, and I didn't want to be a downer, you know, towards like university graduates or that type of thing. But the issue is, is the employee that we're looking for. We want to have the technical skills and the science background, but yet when so much time is spent getting that, then a lot of times they don't have the practical. Um, so finding skilled labor that knows how to do what needs to be done to get bowls ready for a sale or, or that type of thing can be very hard. Um, because, you know, finding, finding that that person that has both aspects and even, even young people now are so busy growing up, that they may grow up on a ranch, but never spend as much time there as what used to be. Now, I know that never happened to your place because I know your dad, and I know he kept you very busy, but, uh,
Shaye Koester (10:14):
There's a lot of days we spent off the ranch doing fun things too. And I mean, a lot of those were things with 4-H and FFA where we were gone, where it was still involved, but there were still sports and other school activities that took away from us being home.
Casey Fanta (10:27):
Yeah. So I was, you know, we always joke about farmers or ranchers that can fix anything with baler twine and some duct tape. Um, there's something to be said about that. I mean, I call that handy and we have, we have, um, people that we hire that are very knowledgeable. I mean, they understand the technology, they understand the science, but they're not handy because they've never done the work hands-on, and, and they're not problem solvers because they've never had to solve those problems. There's just a, you know, there's a lot to be said for hands-on experience as far as, as really being successful in this business. And, and again, it, it goes back to relating to your customers because they have a lot more respect for you if they know that, that, you know, how, how did, how, what they go through on a daily basis.
Shaye Koester (11:16):
Absolutely. So can you talk about, I mean, a little bit of it is self explanatory when you hear it, but what are like the impacts that this has on an operation when you don't have those skills, where you'd necessarily be what you called handy or being able to problem solve using the resources you have?
Casey Fanta (11:35):
Yeah. It just, um, it just really affects the operation because as we, as time goes on and it seems like operations get bigger and bigger. So when you've got, you've got one people person that kinda knows how to do things, they get, they tend to get spread pretty thin and are constantly training employees and that type of thing, they get, they get spread pretty thin. So, um, it's, uh, it, it, it definitely has an effect on the operation because you have to, you know, we ended up doing a lot more, a lot more teaching and that type of thing, um, than what we're used to as ranchers. I mean, growing up, uh, the goal was to have your coffee in the morning and go out and get the work, you know, and, and now we, we spend a lot more times having, having meetings and talking about what we're going to do and how we're going to go about doing it. And it's just a, it's a, it's a whole different concept that I've had to learn the grass. Because when I, when I worked for smaller operations, I just put it on my shoulders and get it done, you know? And so it's a, it's a lot different when you're working with a crew and you're training and, and, uh, it's just, it becomes a different world.
Shaye Koester (12:43):
Well, absolutely now with these skills, I mean, there's the cattle management, but then there's the, can you fix a well? Do you understand plumbing, the electricity side of it? Can you build stuff? Can you weld stuff? So what advice do you have to bridge these gaps for individuals who maybe don't have that experience, but are looking for positions like this?
Casey Fanta (13:04):
Uh, that is a tough one. Like I said, we have a lot of Hispanic labor, which, you know, kind of brings its own, um, its own set of, uh, trials, I guess, because you, you gotta have, you gotta have good communication. Um, so we, we have people that are fluent in Spanish. I almost said Spanglish because, I joke with the guys sometimes that's what I speak is Spanglish. So anyway, um, but, um, they need to be able to communicate, but, um, it, it, it is hard because like I said, you, you want people to have the technology, um, and, and be able to do that, but still do the hands-on. And, and they're not, they're not easy things to train. They're not things that everybody knows. Like, like we said, you had to, you have to grow up learning those things. Um, it's hard to learn them over time. So I don't know if there is a good solution. It's just, it's just the world we live in, but it gets very expensive. You have to outsource all of that type of thing. You know, if a well needs to be fixed or you got an electrical problem or whatever, it gets very expensive. If you have to get that done by somebody in that field of work.
Shaye Koester (14:20):
Absolutely. So with that being said, like, what are some leadership and skillset qualities that you're looking for for people doing that day-to-day labor?
Casey Fanta (14:31):
I guess the biggest thing is for them to be open, to, to learn and, and, um, you know, pay attention, um, finding the right people that not necessarily, you know, sometimes it isn't, it isn't the people that, that have the, uh, that have the, even the background to start is having the passion learn and having the passion to try and get better at it. So when, when people ask about like, know, how do I get involved in the genetics? Like, I'd really like to help you with genetics. I'm like, well, start reading the sale catalogs, all the information is there. When you tell me, you know, you know, the genetics that are in the sale catalog and the EPDs and everything else, then we'll talk about it. So to some extent, you got to find the people that are willing to put it on themselves, to, to have the passion, to learn and to pick these things up.
Casey Fanta (15:24):
Um, you know, it isn't going to work. If somebody says, well, I've got a degree and I want a management position, you know, and, and you hire them and they spend 90% of their time in the office. Um, making plans for the guys out in the, out, in the, out, in the corral to get the work done, because they soon the workers soon lose respect for the guy. That's trying to do that. And as soon as they, as soon as they figure out that, what, what he's asking him to do, he has no idea how to do himself. Um, it becomes a, it becomes a management problem. So I try to work with our guys. I mean, I, I travel a lot to different sites and different things and, and, and, uh, I try to work with our guys, like when we're weaning or anything like that, I'll help them out calving sometimes or whatever, just because it's good for them to know that I'll do whatever they do, you know, and I'm not asking them to do something that I would never do myself.
Casey Fanta (16:19):
I don't know how to do myself. And so that's how, that's how I teach. I mean, I'm not wanting to take somebody aside and say, Oh, I'm, you know, just, uh, we'll get together for an hour for the next week and you'll know everything I know. It's not even possible. I mean, you just come with me and you do what I do and you'll pick it up. I've even had people tell me I'm not a very good teacher because I, I just, unless you ask the question, I'm probably not going to just start talking and, and driving things into ya. I mean, uh, if you ask the questions, I'll answer them and we'll talk for hours and hours. But, uh, I always say, well, my son's picked a lot of this stuff up and I don't do any teaching with him either. He just follows me around constantly.
Shaye Koester (17:08):
Yeah, I've, uh, I grew up like that too. So... (Laughter) Definitely have to ask questions or at least just keep watching, but both usually works out a lot better. Well, with that, I guess, what advice do you have for the next generation of the beef industry? I mean, we've kind of wrapped up all the questions we've had short and sweet, but you really were speaking North Dakotan and got right to the point.
Casey Fanta (17:40):
So, so I guess my, my best advice would be, uh, you know, to ranchers that have to have some hired help or, or even the next generation into the program is if you find that person that has that passion and wants to be involved, you have to figure out how to hang on to them because they are hard to come by. You know, I think school and education is all very important, but it comes in different ways, too. I know from example, my son was always going to go to university when he got done with high school and he never liked school that well. He's always done cow school. I mean, he liked being around the cattle and doing that thing. And now he started a job with a, with a cattle marketing company. And, uh, you know, it's kinda, you know, it's, it's to each individual, I guess, but, uh, you know, we're in a time where it's really hard to find somebody that's totally rounded because, um, like I say, there's so much technology and so much science that gets involved in it.
Casey Fanta (18:43):
Um, that like for myself, I try to understand the science. I'm never going to be an expert. Um, but I kinda, I keep, I keep trying to apply it to what I do the best as possible. So I, I'm not saying I'm a scientist, but it has to relate to the cattle too. It can't just be the science. It has to be, it has to be visual. It has to be how the, how the cattle function and, and, and, and it has to prove itself out in the field. And even the, you know, even the technology, I mean, that's been another one for me. I mean, in the last nine years since I worked for Wulf Cattle, I mean, I, I do everything on a smartphone. I do spreadsheets on a smart phone. I do all kinds of things. And I, and I never really did that.
Casey Fanta (19:28):
I'm, I'm a pen and paper guy. And, and so even like, we're getting ready for our bull sale now, and I have everything in a computer program, but I printed it out and then I still hand write lots of things. And that's how it goes into my mind. That's how I remember things. That's how I learned the bulls is when I write the numbers and write the information. Um, so it's like a, it's like a big mix of, of new technology and old school, you know, all still school, pen and paper. And I think we have to keep that. I mean, if we get to the point where everything is based on a spreadsheet and cattle are selected from an office, we could definitely get headed down the wrong path for things like structure and , you know, which cause foot problems and longevity problems and disposition.
Casey Fanta (20:16):
I mean, you can't, there's no way, you know, the disposition if you're sitting in an office and if your guys are telling you, you know, the cattle are too wild to work on and you're sitting in the office, and you say, Oh, no, go out and take care of it. You know, but when you're, when you're hands on with them, you know, one gets bad. You know, you don't want her around anymore in this case it just takes too much time and too much trouble. And you owe it to your help even to get, get rid of them. I mean, my guys know if a, if a cow gives them trouble and she's mean, just send her. And they're like, well, what if it's one of our donors or one of our top cows? I said, I don't care. She's not a donor anymore. She is a cull cow and it's not worth it. So there's gotta be a, you know, there's gotta be a mix and it gets harder and harder to find that person. And so my advice would be when you do find that person that takes an interest, invest some time and invest, you know, invest some money in whom and make sure that you keep that person, whether it's family or hired help, or, you know, whatever the case may be, because it's a very unique person to run these operations anymore.
Shaye Koester (21:18):
Awesome advice. And thank you very much for taking the time to visit with me today and share your story with everyone. I know this topic, the labor topic comes up a lot, so I'm sure the listeners will really appreciate this.
Casey Fanta (21:30):
Yeah. And it kind of gets to be, you know, kind of gets to be a little bit taboo. Nobody wants to talk about it. And I, I guess I'm, I'm, uh, I've never been afraid to talk about anything. I just say what's on my mind, and my wife would say I'm probably hard to deal with just because my theory has always been. You just work till the job is done. So, um, I'm probably not the easiest person to work for at times, but, um, you know, it's, it's different. I mean, we have livestock that depends on us. So it's there just like our children and everything else. I mean, they, they can't take care of themselves. We, we put them in that situation. So it's our responsibility to look after them.
Shaye Koester (22:17):
Absolutely. And that's a wrap on that one. Thank you for tuning in and thank you, Casey, for sharing your advice and experience and your insight on what individuals can do to better themselves today and what you're looking for as an employer and for sharing what you see from your position. I know I really enjoyed his advice about when you find someone who is good, make sure you put time and money into them to keep them around. I think that's something we really need to do because a theme that's come up in other episodes is that it's really about the people and how you take care of your people. And I would fully agree with that. With that. Remember to give me a like, share, shout out. If you're interested in becoming a patron, let me know. I've had people become patrons and I've had other individuals just send me a check for whatever they are willing to donate and to keep this podcast going, but have a great day, stay warm, happy spring. If you're putting on a bull sale, best of luck to you. If you're the one buying bulls, may the odds be in your favor. So with that have a good day and I'll catch you next time.
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