Shaye Koester (00:00):
Hey, Hey, it's Shaye Koester and I'm your host for Casual Cattle Conversations, where we talk about all things related to ranching, through sharing the stories and practices of different ranchers and their operations. Alrighty folks, thanks for tuning in again for this episode. It is my pleasure to offer you an episode with Mr. Paul Engler. Now, Paul is known for many things in the beef industry, especially in the cattle feeding industry. However, I know Paul as the individual who founded the Engler Entrepreneurship Program and because of his investment into his program and founding it, that's the reason we have this podcast today. That's the reason I have this podcast and have found my way to this space. His investment has truly impacted many individuals in the entrepreneurship space and the beef industry. I hope you enjoy all the knowledge that Paul shares today. It's an outstanding interview. I was elated before, after, and during the interview. He was just so great to visit with and truly someone who makes the fire in your belly burn a little brighter. With that, please soak in all the advice Paul offers. I know I did. I know I soak in more and more each and every time I listen. So with that, let's get on with the episode, but please remember to give me a like, share or shout out on social media. Comment what you've learned today on my social media pages. Let's have those conversations. You guys have been absolutely outstanding and I want to keep serving you. So with that, get involved. It's awesome. I'd love to interact with you even more and build up the community. So with that, let's get on with the episode and hear what Paul has to say.
Platform Cattle (02:01):
But first let's hear from today's sponsor Platform Cattle. Cattlemen provide stewardship for our land and husbandry to our cattle. Platform Cattle is a brand that provides those cattlemen with the tools and products they deserve to have. Founded by a fifth-generation rancher that shares the passion behind the cattle industry, Platform Cattle wants to help introduce new ways to help cowboys and not change them. Platform Cattle is proud to be able to introduce a product that does just that. Bovibox is the first ever free choice protein supplement for cattle that carries a live probiotic post-production, which can enhance gut health, improve immunity response, increase mineral absorption and strengthen cattle performance. Bovibox includes a full mineral package as well featuring Avali 4 by Zinpro performance minerals. It fits right into natural, value-added and NHTC value-added protocols and is made into 100-pound blocks that are packaged in a completely biodegradable cardboard box. So there's no more picking tubs out of the fence or pond. Manufactured by Agri beef. This makes Bovibox truly made for cattle and designed by cattlemen. For more information about Bovibox and the ways it can fit into your operation visit platformcattle.com or call Emmet Storer at (308) 650-1897.
Shaye Koester (03:15):
Would you please start and share how you became involved in the beef industry?
Paul Engler (03:21):
I'd be more than happy to do that. It has been told time and time again, but I always enjoy telling it. And actually it was a major event in my life. I grew up in a small town in north central, Nebraska, about 500 people. My father had a filling station and so he believed in real strong workmanship ethics and so forth. He puts you to work really early and in my case, I was six years old in the filling station, checking tires, airing tires, or washing windshields. Well, to be real frank, I didn't like it and it was easy for him to see that I didn't like it. So he thought, well, maybe if we get an introduction to livestock he'll like that. So he bought one cow. It was a Jersey milk cow.
Paul Engler (04:40):
We had a barn and bought four acres of land adjacent to the town of Bassett and my job was to milk the cow and so on. Well, one cow went to two cows, then three cows and so we sold milk. At that time this was pre pasteurization days. It was a big time actually. You see the market was good for that type of product because these were hard times. They were in the depression, the Great Depression. The cream would rise to the top and that was the cream that people use. We sold our milk for 10 cents a quart, which today doesn't sound like very much but then it was different. Then the only competition we had was another milk supplier in town. They sold their milk for 8 cents. We got 10 cents because ours was cleaner.
Paul Engler (05:55):
And it was my job to take care of the cows and to deliver the milk. My sister would help me fill the bottles. So that was my first taste in business, which was important also. You know, people paid on a monthly basis and sometimes you run across people, they'll say, "Paul, you know, we just don't have the money to pay it this week. You know, can we wait another month?" So I learned all that, which is extremely important and particularly at my age. So, but anyway, it got too big and of course cows had to be milked before we went to school which required getting up pretty early. It just got too much and so we sold the milk cows and then he bought what are called stocker cattle. Stocker calves, which were calves weaned off their mothers in the fall of the year and then kept over winter and fed a minimum gain.
Paul Engler (07:14):
Then they were pastured and the following summer, but those cows had to be, had to be hayed, fed hay and a supplement and all of my job after I got out of school and evening was go out and take care of his cattle. Well, my father was a great man and a great father, but one of these things that used to irritate me is he never paid you any money for your work. If you needed some money to buy a new pair of shoes, you'd get that or a pari coveralls or overalls, whatever it might be. But, you just didn't get paid and a lot of other kids had an allowance. He didn't do that sort of thing. So it irritated me so bad that I had to do something about it. Well, in the meantime, I'd gotten a job up at the Livestock Auction at Bassett. I got excused from school on Wednesdays and on Wednesdays I'd go up there and work at the auction. I observed what was going on a little bit and learned about the business.
Paul Engler (08:40):
So when my father had a business trip where he was gone for about three days, I went up to my usual employment and went in and bought myself a hundred head of cattle at the auction. When the sale was over, the owner of the auction says, his name was Mr. Lambert. And he said, "Paul, come over here. I've got to talk to ya." So I went over and he says, "You bought some cattle today. How many?" I said, "A hundred head." And he said, "You didn't have any money either?" I said, "no." He said, "Well, how are you going to pay for these cattle?" And I looked at him and I said, "I guess you're going to have to loan me the money." Believe it or not, I was not quite 13 years oldand he said, "Okay."
Paul Engler (09:46):
So we made it out and so forth and then I got the cattle home and told my mother about it. Of course she had a fit because the first thing she thought was he certainly got cheated, you know, 12 year old boy buying his cattle at the auction. So she went over and talked to a neighbor who had been at the sale. And he said, "Paul knew what he was doing. He did a good job buying his cattle." So she came back and said, "Well, you're still going to get in trouble with your father. You didn't ask him permission." And I really thought she was probably right.
Paul Engler (10:36):
But anyway, we went ahead and I had been planning this for awhile. So I had already gotten a brand and my brand registered. So we had some help. Got the cattle home. Got them branded and then just turned them in with his, my father's. So when he got home in the morning, he said, "Let's go out and look at the cattle." We went out and he said, "The herd got a little bit bigger while I was gone." I said, "Yes." He said, "Well, would you mind telling me about it?" So I did and of course he wanted to know about the money. Well, obviously he didn't want somebody other than him to loan me the money. So we went down the bank and got the papers made out and so forth to pay the loan off. We went out in the pickup and then something happened that I'll never forget as long as I live. I thought, well, now it's going to come. You know, he's gonna get upset and really give me a bad time and perhaps a tongue lashing. But instead of that, he stuck out his hand to shake my hand and he said, "Son, I'm proud of you." Well, that really stayed with me. So I was in the cattle business and the next year I did the same thing. I got raised to and I graduated high school when I was 15 years old. So my father asked me, "What are you going to do now?" I said, "Well, I'm doing pretty good." I had increased my numbers and so forth and he said, "Well, let me make a suggestion. I think you should go to college. You've got enough money that when you sell out at least you can get you started. There will be plenty of time after you get your education that you can get back in the cattle business." And so we did. So that's kinda the story about how I got started. Of course, the cattle business has been really, pretty good to me and we were fortunate enough and hard working enough and entrepreneurial enough you might say that we kept going operations. I had a couple of interludes. I spent three years in the meatpacking business. The old IBP bought my interest out in Texas for me to take a group, vice presidentship office to run the carcass division. I had the cattle buying carcass division, which at that time we had seven plants and the carcass beef sales and the byproducts, and also the hides. And the only thing I knew about the whole business was the cattle purchases and all the rest of it I had to learn.
Shaye Koester (14:33):
So you mentioned that you were entrepreneurial enough. And so one of the many things you're known for is founding Cactus Feeders. So what led to you making that decision?
Paul Engler (14:49):
It really is a nice story or at least for me. I was in partnership and also an employee of Dinklage Cattle Company in Wisner, NE. At that time it was primarily owned by a gentleman named Louis Dinklage. He was the largest cattle feeder in the state and actually he probably was one of the largest in the country. He was not only a wonderful boss, but he helped me you know a good bit. Among my many jobs with him were feeding cattle together and bought farms and all this, and that was to buy, continue to buy feeder cattle. And so I was in Texas actually, at the Hereford, Texas railroad stockyards. We were loading cattle, weigh them up, to push them up to Nebraska when a train pulled into the siding that had been made up in Amarillo, subsequent to the Amarillo livestock auction.
Paul Engler (16:16):
At that time that livestock auction would handle as many as 15,000 cattle on sale day. This train was made up and feeder cattle that had been loaded and grain sorghum, or Milo all destined for Southern California. It was a cattle feeding industry going on out there. At that time there was virtually no commercial cattle feeding in Texas. And so I was talking to a rancher and I said, "This is a terrible mistake." He said, "What do you mean?" I said, "You're exporting the two raw materials that would develop into a cattle feeding industry." And I was very sincere, you know, in telling him that. He said, "Well, we're just waiting for someone like yourself to come down and show us how to do it."
Paul Engler (17:24):
So that's what hatched out. Then I came back and met with Mr. Dinklage and asked what he thought about the prospect of a feeding. He said, "It'll work." I said, "Well, would you mind if I go back down and get a hold of some property for a location and get started?" He said, "No, that's fine." So I went down. I committed on the land always thinking that he would be my partner, because of all these other things we partnered with and he didn't have any children. He treated me like a son and I just assumed that he'd be my partner. We got to moving along and I said something to him and he said, "Well, don't count on me." And I said, "What do you mean don't count?" He said, "It's too far from home." I mean I about fainted because I thought, how in the hell am I going to do this without him?
Paul Engler (18:36):
But, I didn't have any choice. I mean he wasn't kidding. He said no. He never would give me a good answer, but I like to think that it really came down to me leaving. I like to think that he what was disturbed about that part. So, we had we had to split up what we owned together and when you do that, you split up a partnership, oftentimes hard feelings enter into the deal. You start valuing different assets, so forth, and that's precisely what happened. I was committed in Texas and so I loaded the family up and sent them off. I took the old oldest boy, Mike, with me in a pickup and horse trailer to take a couple of horses down. When I went out to tell him Mr. Dinklage, goodbye. He was sorting cattle horseback but he wouldn't stop. He saw me standing there by the fences, you know, but he wasn't stopped until he got his cattle sorted. Then he rode over, leanded over his horse and said, "What do you want? " I stuck out my hand and I said, "Well, I'm ready to go the last thing I wanted to do was tell you, goodbye and thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the wonderful things that you did for me." He wouldn't even shake my hand. He just turned his horse around and rode off. I balled all the way to Texas. That's a fact because here this man had done all these wonderful things for me and this is the way it broke up.
Paul Engler (20:54):
But, I was committed. I had all kinds of obligations. I had to do it. So, we went to work. Now here comes the nice part of the story. We were building pens and so forth and while we're doing this, I started talking up custom cattle feeding to the area because we didn't have enough money raised for capital. I took some Texas people in as partners but we didn't have enough to finance our own cattle ownerships. So we were going to be totally committed to custom feeding for other other accounts. I worked and honest to God fact, I couldn't get anybody committed. Or I'd approach somebody, give them a big deal and of course they didn't know anything about cattle feeding. So of course they said, well, and invariably, they'd say, "Oh, Paul, you know, you're a good guy. We like you and so forth, but we'll see how you get along here going forward." And of course the answer to that one was that "I'm not sure we're going to get along." So we didn't have any prospects when a local rancher drove into the feedyard where we were building this yard. We had always bought his cattle and shipped them to Nebraska. His name was Roger Brumley and he said, "Paul, I'm ready to sell my steers." He started with, "Would you mind calling Mr. Dinklage and see if he's interested?" I said, "I'd be glad to." And I did not talk to him Mr. Dinklage at any time. When I rode off I thought that chapter in my life was all over, but I knew when I told that rancher I'd call him. I knew that Louis would never call him. He would die before he'd ever called me. So I thought, well, I'll just take a shot at it and call him up. I got him on there to tell him about the cattle. I'll never forget. I called him and he said, "Who is this?" He knew who it was. [laughs] I said, "It's Paul." He said, "Paul who?" [laughter] How do you go through that agony? I said, "Well, Roger Brumley asked me to give you a call he's ready to sell his cattle." He strictly said, "I'll be down here in the morning."
Paul Engler (23:46):
He got a guy to help him drive. He drove into the feedyard that next morning, got out of the car and shook my hand just like everything else was history. He said, "Well, Let's go out and buy those steers." We went out and bought the cow. Then he said, "Well, just show me what you are doing here building this feedyard." He wanted to know about some pens and all about that. So, we went out driving around. He said, "Well, are you going to number of these pens?" I didn't have the signs up yet. So he had another other guy to help him drive that down and he said, "Write that number down." And he kept going on. And I said, "What are you doing?" He said, I'm reserving those pens to feed cattle. That's how I got started and then of course he had a good enough reputation with the ranchers and cattle people down there that when they saw him feeding cattle they knew it had to be a good deal. So we couldn't build pens fast enough after that and I got it kind of started. There's a sequel to that story believe it or not. We went ahead and were very successful in the cattle feeding and at that time. Then periodically IBP, which was a predecessor to Tyson they would, well I knew the two founders of IBP when I was up there. Every once in a while, they would approach me about joining their company and they finally made me an offer that I couldn't turn down.
Paul Engler (25:50):
So I moved to Sioux city. I a group was vice president in charge of the fed cattle buying, carcass plants, carcass sales, byproducts and hide divisions. The only thing I knew about it was the cattle buying as we learned the business. But anyway, I was on the board. IBP was a public company and they put me on the board of directors and Mr. Dinklage was also on the board. I hadn't visited with him for several years because after he got me started in Texas there, why a couple three years, he said, "You don't need me any more." He quit feeding cattle down there, so I hadn't had any contact with him.
Paul Engler (26:56):
So it was really a nice deal. When we would go to directors' meetings we'd get together and visit. IBP was very good to me. I had a10 year contract with them but I didn't like the business. Somebody said, "What didn't you like?" and I said, "You know, look, I've spent almost a hundred percent of my life prior to being there, trying to keep cattle alive not to kill him." It was kind of a funny way of putting it, but I really didn't like the business and I wanted to get back cattle feeding. So I did and it was a very favorable exit and so forth. One of the conditions was no press releases on me leaving. So it was kinda a very confidential deal. And so one morning, I hadn't talked to Mr. Dinklage for a couple two or three years, he called me up. He was an early riser. He said, "I understand you're going back to Texas." And I said, "Well, we're not making a big deal out of it, but that's right." He said, "I also understand you're getting back into the cattle feeding business." I said, "Yes." He said, "Well, so and so has 1500 steers out on a ranch north of Amarillo." He said, "You go out there and if they look okay you buy them and we'll partner." He wanted the first cattle back and that feed yard, the second feed yard. And of course here again he was a great customer until I got back in business. So I like to tell the story because I didn't tell you when he hired me. Did I tell you that story?
Shaye Koester (29:17):
You told me before, I've heard you tell it before.
Paul Engler (29:21):
He hired me for $300 a month and I had been making $700. The old saying you came a long way, you know, but he was a very integral part of my life. So then I went back in the business and that's when we started Cactus Feeders. The first go around was what we called the Whole Herford Feedyards.
Shaye Koester (29:56):
You made the comment previously that you weren't sure if you were going to make it, what kept the fire in your belly burning, because you always tell us as Engler students or your quote is all over. Tom always tells us that we have to have a fire in our belly. So what kept that burning even when you thought you might not make it?
Paul Engler (30:16):
I knew we had to make it work. I mean instead of saying, well, I made a mistake I might as well quit building a feedyard and so on and so forth. I had the responsibilities. I still had the fire, but those responsibilities were, I guess you might say some of the coals or embers that kept me going.
Shaye Koester (30:43):
Absolutely.
Paul Engler (30:44):
I made a lot of commitments to a lot of people. Of course I was still sold on the idea of cattle feeding and Texas. And to show you what happened, really the on the cattle on feed numbers, that the USDA publishes, at this time Texas wasn't even on there and then we got the cattle feeding deal started down there. Texas now has been number one for cattle on feed numbers probably for 30 years.
Shaye Koester (31:23):
Wow. So how would you describe your entrepreneurial career in the beef industry?
Paul Engler (31:32):
Well, if you, if you want to be successful and assuming everybody wants to be successful, you've got to be an entrepreneur. There is no ifs and buts about it. I mean you could get five different Harvard graduates go in on a cattle feeding deal who are not entrepreneurs and I swear to God it'd fail, because that part of your belly, you got to have It's just the nature of the business, you know, ups and downs. Of course, there's a lot of failures in the business. They just didn't, you know, it didn't make it. I think it's a true example of entrepreneurship for anybody in that business who continues to be a success.
Shaye Koester (32:41):
Is there anything you would have done differently?
Paul Engler (32:48):
Oh God almighty. I don't have time.
Shaye Koester (32:53):
Is there like one big thing or a big piece of advice you have about something you wish you would have done differently?
Paul Engler (32:59):
Really most of the big failures have been something other than the cattle feeding business, which is another old saying. You better know what the hell you're doing and don't think you're smart enough that you could run some other business. It doesn't work out that way and we are in one of those messes right now. So keep the fire burning.
Shaye Koester (33:40):
What would you say is the greatest thing about being an entrepreneur in the beef industry?
Paul Engler (33:47):
The whole deal in entrepreneurship, you know we argue about it. You probably got exposed to this, you know, with theories and so forth. I still believe that it's something you're born with or not and our job here with the Engler program here and other things I'm associated in is take those individuals that have that spirit, but then develop it and get them steered in the right direction and give them all the assistance that you can. You know, as helpers along the way.
Shaye Koester (34:46):
Absolutely. And that's the experience I've had. I know. So as members of the beef industry, what's something we need to change? Whether that's an attitude, a way of business, what is something we need to change?
Paul Engler (35:00):
Well, if you combine three sectors of the livestock business it'd be the producer or the rancher he's at, he's at the bottom of the deal, then you've got the cattle feeder, and then you have the meat-packer, that's the three sections. Of course, then you go on up into the food service, people, retailers, so on, so forth,. But back to the previous sectors. For the system to work correctly is that you got premium markets and all the things that go along with it is that one sector historically would get along a little bit better just because, you know, the supply and demand situation. Everything is on, you know, free market basis. So the cattle feeders are a little bit short on numbers and ranchers, you know, numbers are a little bit lower and so on and so forth.
Paul Engler (36:04):
So those prices rise, and that rancher gets a little bit bigger piece of the pie, but it's still a pie. And then the same thing will come along with a cattle feeder. The rancher will have produced a little bit, a few more cattle, you know, it really sends it and you really need a good demand. So then the profits in the cattle feeding deal go up and so forth. And then here, the packer is sitting over here, then that all, once the numbers get a little bit large that the cattle feeder is producing. So a few more cattle come to market than what they normally do. So, you know, the packer cuts back on the price they had to pay for supply and he gets a bigger piece of the pie. So that's really the way it should work in free enterprise.
Paul Engler (37:08):
Something now is all messed up and packers are getting as much as 300, even in some instances over $300 a head on the way the USDA figures those numbers. And when I mentioned earlier, I did a tour of duty, you know, with IBP and we had a weekly P and L with the carcass deal. And thought on average, we'd make about $15 per head the same cattle, the same process and so forth. So now the Packer's making 300, so the system is screwed up and I could go on the rest of the day about why that has happened, but it's happened and something's gotta be done. Unfortunately, it's probably gonna require something that we've all always been very much against. And that's any governmental interference in our business. So now the suffering that takes place is the cattle feeder and then the rancher.
Shaye Koester (38:42):
So with that, with everything you've invested a lot into the future generation of entrepreneurs and the beef industry, why did you choose to do that?
Paul Engler (38:58):
Well, that's something very important. I guess I'm egotistical enough to say that I think it's a wonderful thing, you know, but to pay it back. You are made of money. You're successful but so what? What the hell are you going to do with the money? And I actually, I live pretty simple. I don't need to go out and blow a bunch of money. So we got money so I always said the best thing to do is to see that it gets back and that's what we like to think that we're doing here with the money that we set up here for endowments and having a similar situation at West Texas University. I was always fearful that when we made this program at the University of Nebraska that'd I'd get some of my friends and some of my not so friends say, "Engler, what the hell you made your money in Texas, not in Nebraska. Why don't you spend your money down here, instead of there?" I never did have that happen, but I was always afraid that would happen. And that would have been a very legitimate question.
Paul Engler (40:37):
And so that's one of the reasons we have gone ahead with this deal at West Texas, and we're committed there. We kick in a million dollars per year to the college of business and agriculture and perpetuity. You know, 80 years, and then it's good for another 80 years. Hopefully, the people running the show are good enough to keep that going.
Shaye Koester (41:11):
Absolutely. So what's been the most rewarding part for you when you look back on those investments.
Paul Engler (41:21):
Oh! Now don't laugh now, but that is a real simple answer just today is a good example. Absolutely.
Shaye Koester (41:29):
So what advice do you have for the next generation of entrepreneurs in the beef industry?
Paul Engler (41:36):
There's going to be a lot of tough spots as, you know, you got an environmental situation or things like that. I just hope that we have a leadership in these industries where the producer sector, cattle feeder and so on and so forth that can handle these adversities. People continue to desire and demand for the product and these other products beyond beef, you know, for example, and so forth, you know, what kind of a foothold was it in the business and what percentage of the markets, you know, are going to go into those products. And then the environmental deal, if the feedyard today just not properly managed, it's going to be a detriment to the community from the standpoint of the environmental deal. And so, so there's going to be challenges. There's no question about it. I just hope that we have leadership that is able to meet those challenges. I still think in the whole scheme of things that God created, the cattle to eat the grass and they produce a product. That's up to the industry, you know, to do that, right.
Shaye Koester (43:39):
Absolutely. Now thank you for your time. Is there anything else you would like to share with the listeners or anything else you would like to add?
Paul Engler (43:48):
Well, I think it gets back to actually what we have here is education, and I'm a strong believer and all kinds of education, you know, and they, and they are visited here today. You know, it's probably more, the more reassuring the whole record of the entrepreneurship program here at the university, you know, is really good. You still represent a very strong, very small minority, you know, in the whole scheme of things, but these things they latch on here and latch on there and I think the whole thing hopefully grows.
Shaye Koester (44:41):
That is awesome. And thank you for sharing everything with us today. I appreciate it a lot, and I know my listeners will too
Paul Engler (44:48):
Well. I wish you good luck. Thank you. Bless you. Yeah, you're biting off a very big chunk too.
Shaye Koester (44:58):
It's worth it.
Shaye Koester (44:59):
And that's a wrap on that one folks. I hope you enjoyed Paul's insight and story. As much as I did. I know he has changed the lives of many with the entrepreneurship programs he has started. And I guess it was just a dream for me to sit down and have a cup of coffee and visit with him one afternoon. But with that, please let me know what you think of the episode. Be sure to go follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and YouTube. I've got just about everything now. So with that, have a great day. Give me a rating, like share and comment. Let me know what you think and I'll catch you on the next one.
Platform Cattle (46:01):
But first, let's hear from today's sponsor Platform Cattle. Cattlemen provide stewardship for our land and husbandry to our cattle. Platform Cattle is a brand that provides those cattlemen with the tools and products they deserve to have. Founded by a fifth-generation rancher that shares the passion behind the cattle industry, Platform Cattle wants to help introduce new ways to help cowboys and not change them. Platform Cattle is proud to be able to introduce a product that does just that. Bovibox is the first-ever free choice protein supplement for cattle that carries a live probiotic post-production, which can enhance gut health, improve immunity response, increase mineral absorption and strengthen cattle performance. Bovibox includes a full mineral package as well featuring Avali 4 by Zinpro performance minerals. It fits right into natural, value-added and NHTC value-added protocols and is made into 100-pound blocks that are packaged in a completely biodegradable cardboard box. So there's no more picking tubs out of the fence or pond. Manufactured by Agri beef. This makes Bovibox truly made for cattle and designed by cattlemen. For more information about Bovibox and the ways it can fit into your operation visit platformcattle.com or call Emmet Storer at (308) 650-1897.
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