Policy Episode: 30 by 30

 

Shaye Koester  00:00

THIS EPISODE WAS RECORDED IN SEPTEMBER PLEASE NOT THAT POLICY IS CONSTANTLY CHANGING IN WASHINGTON D.C. Hey, Hey, it's Shaye Koester and I'm your host for the Casual Cattle Conversations podcast where we foster innovation and enthusiasm in the ranching industry through sharing the stories and practices of different ranchers and beef industry leaders. Be sure to be a greater part of this podcast and become involved on my social media pages. Follow @cattleconvos on Instagram, Facebook and Tik Tok or Shaye Koester on LinkedIn to join the conversations around the challenges we face as ranchers, and how we can overcome them. You can also find more information about this podcast, all my episodes and how to partner with me on this show, by going to my website, casualcattleconversations.com. With that, thanks for tuning in. And let's see who our guest is today. Alrighty, folks, thanks for tuning in again And joining me here today. This is a bonus episode just for you guys. I asked if you want more policy, and you said yes. So today on the show, we have Kaitlynn Glover, who is going to be sharing her knowledge and all that she knows and is available to share with us about the 30 by 30. or some of you maybe have heard it called America the Beautiful. But really, she's going to go into more depth on explaining that because she does a much better job than I ever could. So with that we are going to get on with the episode. Be sure to sign up for my newsletter, if you want episodes, and my blogs sent straight to your inbox. So you can do that on my website, casualcattleconversations.com/newsletter. But with that, as usual, give me a like share, shout out on social media. But we're gonna get on with the episode. All right, well, thanks for hopping on today. Kaitlynn, it's great to have you on here. Glad we got a meeting to work out. You're certainly busy.

 

Kaitlynn Glover  01:02

Things are things are busy here in Washington and I think never more so then this time of year when we head to the end of the fiscal year. And look how we're going to allocate funds and spend funds for the next year. This year is a little bit interesting, because we have the appropriations coming forward and a lot of these relief packages too. So this adds a little bit of complexity to all of these conversations that aren't really easy for Congress to have most years.

 

Shaye Koester  02:49

Well, I'm just glad you could be on here. We made it work through that. So to get started, would you mind sharing with my audience, you know, what is your background and ranching?

 

Kaitlynn Glover  02:59

Sure, so I am I'm a Wyoming girl, I grew up in Wyoming, in you know, in pretty rural conditions. And so I grew up surrounded and with ranchers surrounded by ranching communities by public lands and so you know, one of the hats I wear is the executive director of the Public Lands Council. So I represent ranchers, cattle and sheep producers who value unique part of their operation is that they have grazing on these federal lands for service BLM some of these partnerships with other agencies too. And so that really speaks to my background and where I grew up. I went to the University of Wyoming for my undergrad, Go Pokes, and spent a lot of time in Laramie in a little bit of different conditions, right. It's a it's high, high mountain production atmosphere, but still very much, I think, representative of the West. And then after my undergrad, I actually went to Ireland, and I worked for the semi state there. It's sort of like the USDA halfway between the USDA and our extension services but were really focused on agriculture. And when I came back, I spent some time working on the hill in politics and in policy, and which led me you know, through the years to my positions here, like I said, I'm executive director of PLC, but I also wear a second hat. I am concurrently serving as executive director of the Natural Resources Program, the policy division for the National Cattlemen's Beef Association.

 

Shaye Koester  04:36

Well, awesome, you're sure have a big role in our industry today. So with that, and within your role, would you explain what 30 by 30 is? We hear it in the news. We hear it but what is it?

 

Kaitlynn Glover  04:49

Sure. So you know, like so many things, this tagline that sort of permeated a lot of our conversations about public lands about private lands conservation management, but really what it is at its core, you know, the administration, this administration was really focused on climate, they focused on climate through the campaign. And in the early days, we knew that that concept of climate and environmental rules and regulations was going to be a huge focus. And so it wasn't really a surprise, when very early, President Biden issued an executive order. And one of those executive orders, while there were quite a few focused on these environmental footprints, and in assessing conservation, and preservation, and all of these environmental attributes, and one of the things he did was set a goal for the US to conserve 30% of our lands and waters by the year 2030. And the thing you need to know about executive orders is it's sort of like a presidential wish list, right? I want to do the thing, right, and then they look to their respective department heads or agency heads and say, now you have to figure out how to do it, right. So it's really, you know, this this sort of big idea, factory that happens to be coming out through the President's voice. And so this 30 by 30 goal, I think when it got to the departments, and it got to the agencies, they said, great, the President says 30, by 30, conserve 30% of lands and waters in the next nine years. How are we going to do it?  And I think that how we're going to do it is, is what has created a lot of the discussion over the last eight or nine months. Because he like so many things, the proof is in the pudding. Right? How do we conserve land, but you ask ranchers, and they say, well, we conserve it, because we manage it, we graze it. We manage invasive species, we do prescribed burns, you know, we do things to make the land better and healthier. That's conservation. But of course, the federal agencies in other groups, you know, they might have a different definition of conserve. So really, what this 30 by 30 is, is a goal that we have to take steps to achieve over the next nine years. Now the administration because they said we don't really quite know how to answer this question or respond to the President. They put together this taskforce. And they said, Okay, we need to, we need to reach this goal, we need to tell the president yes, we've done this, too. How do we do that. And that taskforce came up with the America the Beautiful report. And I mentioned that because now those two terms are basically used interchangeably. Your 30 by 30 goal is going to be carried out through this American beautiful campaign. The thing that's kind of special about this or unique maybe about this campaign, is it, it's the first national conservation goal this country has ever had. And so for a lot of folks, that can be scary, because it sounds like the government saying we're going to do this thing. But don't worry, we're here to help. And you know, in some of these rural places, and when the government says, I'm from the government, I'm here to help, that can be a little concerning, right. And so, you know, it's a, it's taken a little while to navigate, what that help is going to look like, and how we can be involved. But, you know, we were pretty clear in the beginning, you know, ranchers know what conservation is, and we know how to do it. And we know that it's very different from other tactics that can be taken. For example, conservation and preservation aren't the same thing. Right? Conservation is active. Preservation is taxidermy. You know, you can't set an ecosystem on a shelf. I mean, you can't set a forest or a range land or a grassland on a shelf and expect it to stay that way. And so this 30 by 30 goal, right, is this evolving target is evolving conservation target that has a, you know, the potential to be the subject of discussion, I think, for at least the next nine years, but certainly beyond into.

 

Shaye Koester  09:03

Absolutely. So thank you for really going into that and explaining especially how 30 by 30 and America the Beautiful are sometimes used interchangeably. And what that means is that it is important to understand, as we see press releases and news reports and whatnot. But so, where is the government at with this now, as far as, you know, conservation and recognizing what ranchers are already doing?

 

Kaitlynn Glover  09:31

I think that's a great question. Right. and you know, one of the things that we focused on NCBA PLC, some of our other rancher land management partners, one of the things that we told them in the beginning, we really told them four main things right, first, that they needed to be very clear that conservation and preservation are two totally separate things. Right. Conservation can include preservation, in some cases, right for, you know, national historic sites for you to preserve a building, that can be conservation of a resource. But for ecosystems, it has to be more dynamic. So they have to be really intentional about what that is. We also told them that they needed to be clear about what would count, you know, what is going to count as conserved and who has to do it in order for it to count. The third thing that was that we had to be clear about where it was going to happen. Was this all going to be on private land? Well, mathematically, that didn't quite work. Was it going to all be on public land? No, that didn't work either, because the government only owns 28.1% of lands in the United States, but had to be really clear about where it was going to happen as well. And this last thing, I think, is the most important because they have to recognize the good work that's already being done. Right. There are a lot of potential pitfalls and missteps in this America the Beautiful campaign, right, nine years is a really long time. And this is a really, really big goal. So there's a lot of potential for things to go awry, just because things can go awry in any land management scenario. But the thing that needs that I think is is so special and so unique about this proposal, is that we as producers, as as ranchers, as land managers, have the opportunity to shape the conversation about grazing activities. This could be you know, if we do this, right, this could be the first opportunity, or the first time really, that the government recognizes that grazing is conservation. Not the grazing can be used as conservation, not that it has conservation outcomes, but that grazing itself is conservation. And I think that's important, right? Because you're exactly right. Ranchers, farmers do good work all the time, you have this constant improvement. You look at a pasture and say, What can I do to make it better for next year, not just better for my cattle and my sheep? But what can I do to make that soil healthier to retain more organic matter to use resources more wisely? And so in order to do that, that definition, or that description of conservation has to be pretty broad, right? It can't just be private land conservation, things like the title to farm bill conservation programs, and there are a lot of those. And those are great, right? But it has to be those plus other things as well. We have conservation projects on BLM lands on forest lands, what are projects that make those landscapes more resilient to catastrophic wildfire or drought, the full spectrum of those things has to be included, because ranchers and farmers, and forest owners and fishers, the Fisher people, I guess, fishermen, those were, those are core conservationists that we recognize to be conservationists, but their contributions need to count and they need to be added into that total. I have to say, you know, there's, when we first started these conversations in January and February, there, there was a little bit of concern about how those contributions would be recognized. I mean, it was one of our forecasts, but you gotta count what works. But these four groups, the farmers, the ranchers, the forest owners, and the fishers, were the only four groups really to be called out in that initial report from from the government. And that's a huge win, because recognizing, we may not know how their work is going to be recognized. But the fact that they were called out in the initial report saying that they do good work, and they have to be recognized. That's really, really important. And it should give your listeners, my members a little bit of security here. Because what we've seen in the last six months is not a lot of progress. You know, I have a it's pretty easy to joke, right? The government loves, loves the task force, they love a working group, they love a meeting, right? And what they've done is put together an interagency working group members from all of the different agencies to come together to answer the questions that they didn't answer in that first report. Who's going to do the conservation? Where's it going to happen? How are we going to count it? What are we going to count it? All of those questions have to be answered. Right. And those are important questions. And so that interagency task force is going to meet quarterly. They met once already and said, We love conservation, which is about all they said, Right? Or reaffirming a commitment to that 30 by 30 goal, but not a lot of detail has come out yet. But I you know, I think I realize I'm being a little long winded here. But I think the other thing to note is that there have been some really interesting discussions from the administration about projects. They've done that they're attributing back to America the Beautiful. Because one of the things we need to remember is that the agencies and departments, they want to be able to tell the President that yes, we have achieved this goal, right? And when your boss is the President, you want to be able to say Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. We got it done. And so they're looking for things to count against that goal. Now, the Department of the Interior, for example, is doing a lot of projects that increase hunting and fishing access or increase access, outdoor access to green space, things that maybe we wouldn't consider as conservation, but they want to count toward their goals as well. Then, you know, they're there, but not so great things. Right. You know, the President announced that September was going to be National Wilderness month, he issued another proclamation and outlined his support for designation of wilderness use of the National Wilderness tools, right for Congress and for the administration. And that's something that's pretty concerning, right, because he linked that back to the American beautiful report. And even though the administration has said, we know, or they know that this goal can't just be about preservation or about designation, having the President say that publicly is is concerning, then. So we had to pretty swiftly remind them that, you know, they have these tools at their disposal. But the quickest way to lose those four key stakeholders that they identified the fishers, the ranchers, the farmers, and the forest owners, the quickest way to do that, is to prohibit them from doing the good work that they already do. So Shaye, it's really kind of a mixed bag. Right? I mean, there has been a little bit of progress made, but it's, it's sort of progressed in, you know, in short announcements and short snippets, rather than sort of that foundational work that we had hoped to see by now.

 

Shaye Koester  16:58

Right. And, I mean, that's just something that I myself need to know, with being involved in ranching, my listeners need to know is just that it is a mixed bag. That's where it's at. So that being said, Are there actions that producers can be taking now? Or what should they be doing to help share their voice or make a difference for their in their benefit?

 

Kaitlynn Glover  17:22

That's a really good question because especially when you have a big government initiative like this, the first question is, you know, are they just going to do this to us? Or are they going to do this with us? And so I think the one of the things that producers that individual ranters can do is just keep harping on the message that we are, you know, we are climate, we're environment, we are ecosystem champions, right, you could not manage these landscapes, we say to the government, without us. And and I think it's important, you know, we're recording at the end of September, and this is national climate month. And so we're having all of these climate week discussions, and I think, you know, maybe even five years ago, talking about, you know, ranchers talking about in supporting climate week, would have raised some eyebrows and made folks a little bit uncomfortable. But the truth is that producers are the ones who take care of these lands, they take care of these waters, they manage wildlife habitat, all of these things are benefits that come from their normal practices. And so continuing to tell that message and say, you know, yeah, I'm a rancher. Yeah, I, you know, I do all these things. But because I do all these things, I'm a conservationist. And so really adopting that term and and putting it in, in sort of their ethos, right in the things that they talk about every day, I think is a really great way to just keep reinforcing the message to consumers, to local government officials, to their agency partners, that we are the ones you need to come to we are the experts here to let us get you to your 30%. Right, you don't need to do anything to us, because we've done it for you already. And I think the other thing, as well, is that, you know, a lot of the discussion so far, and I think this sort of relates to my first point here is that, you know, a lot of the discussion so far is that when this is a federal initiative, right, or a national initiative, a lot of folks have had a lot of government relay regulation, especially in the Western Midwest. The government puts restrictions on things, but pretty tight parameters on things, and in a lot of ways, really disincentivizes some of that partnership. So what I'd encourage your listeners to do is be really willing to to have that conversation, to be to be willing to say, yep, we're conservationists and you know, we're happy to lead this conversation. We're happy to talk to you about it and tell you all the good things we do. But keep having that conversation even when things get tough. Even when the President says this is natural wilderness month, and we love this tool. They know we don't love this tool, and here's why continue that conversation continue to be part of that dialogue. Because if we back out of the conversation, they're going to be people who try to fill our role. But it's not going to be to the benefit of agriculture, it's not going to be the to the benefit of food security. If we don't tell our story, no one else will and, in fact, they'll tell an adulterated version of our story, that that is is farther from the truth. And it certainly  isn't helpful. You know, we've told people for years for decades, right? That we have incredibly important expertise, that our producers are be primary stewards of these lands. And now, the proof is in the pudding. And that we in we show we continue to demonstrate and we continue to lead that conversation. You know, it's sort of like, you know, if any of your listeners have kids, right, you got to set boundaries. Here's the good line, here's the bad line. And then we want to say somewhere in the middle, right, keep it keep it between the lines here. And that's, I think, what we're trying to do with this administration, give them the expertise, tell them when they step over the line, but make sure that these initiatives that, you know, we're covering a heck of a lot of landmass, that these initiatives that are going to fact a lot of number of acres, are beneficial for the land, but for producers in long run too.

 

Shaye Koester  21:37

Well, thank you very much, is there anything else you feel like adding? I think you really covered all the bases, and I feel like I have a better understanding of it. So I'm sure my listeners will too. But if there's anything else you'd like to add, you're more than welcome to before we wrap up?

 

Kaitlynn Glover  21:53

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know just like anything, land management or resource management, you know, we talk about, you know, a lot of opportunities. And you can see me here, you can see, I'm not wearing glasses, and they're not rose colored. And so, you know, all of the good opportunities that we have here, through initiatives like this, by where we have the opportunity to have some really meaningful input and leadership. It's not all good news, right, we know that there are going to be fights ahead on things like critical habitat for endangered species. We know there are lots of fights ahead with national monuments with wilderness areas and other things. But I think it's important to remember that there are opportunities, sometimes you have to make them. But there are opportunities in any one of these proposals. Because, again, you know, this administration, any administration, the likelihood that they're going to have a cattle producer, in their staff, or in those offices. Now, there aren't very many of us, and a lot of us would much rather be out in pasture rather than in an office. And so it's incumbent upon us to tell the story and to be to be available to be engaged, because it's not always going to be good news. But you have advocates here at PLC, have advocates here at NCBA, with our partner organizations to make sure that we were drawing those lines very clearly. You know how to get ahold of me Shaye, and for your listeners, and your listeners are more than welcome to give me a call or send me an email. My email is kaitlynnglover@beef like beef, what's what's for dinner.org. And I'm happy to talk about these things anytime. You know, this is a nine year process. And you know, land is worth taking care of. Cattle and sheep, they need to stay on the landscape, that will continue to be our focus. And I look forward to talking to any of your listeners who want to make sure that the same is true in their their state.

 

Shaye Koester  24:00

Well, thank you very much for that, I'll make sure your email gets down in the show notes so that they're able to do that easily if they need to. But once again, thank you for hopping on. I'm glad we could make it work. And thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge on what 30 by 30. And America the Beautiful is so that we as ranchers can better understand where that's at.

 

Kaitlynn Glover  24:23

Well, thanks so much, Shaye. And yeah, this is going to continue to evolve. So if anybody has any questions, or you want to talk about it again in the future, I'm more than happy to do that as well. Awesome.

 

Shaye Koester  24:33

Thank you. And that's a wrap on that one. I hope you feel more informed about everything that's going on, and really got a lot out of what Kaitlynn had to share with us today. I know I really appreciated it and gained a lot of value from that conversation. Make sure you tell me what you want to hear. As well as go sign up for that newsletter. This newsletter is free and I send you The episodes straight to your inbox, as well as my blog posts. And also I'm able to connect you with some other businesses who have some resources for you. But with that, thanks for joining and I hope to see your download on the next one.